Rail is the future. For every ton of cargo a train can move it 500 miles vs just over a 100 miles for a truck, depending on the source you read... A ship is even better...
some interesting stuff here:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Grain/ ... mption.htm
Rail needs to replace long haul trucking for almost everything at some point down the road. I could see trains moving more and more food long distances, like what these guys are doing:
http://www.railexusa.com/
We used Roadway at a warehouse i use to work at about 9 years ago. I remember they were cheap vs UPS so we always shipped heavy orders with them. I'm not sure why we were using UPS, but maybe they were faster... My boss was worse then Bill Lundberg from "Office Space"...
PeakOil is You
Truck, Trucker, Trucking Thread (merged) Pt.2
THE Truck, Trucker, Trucking Thread (merged)
by frankthetank » Thu 17 Dec 2009, 20:20:29
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Do I see a black swan for trucking? Maybe tomarrow...?
by timmac » Thu 17 Dec 2009, 21:41:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', '
')I don't think people will see shortages of anything being transported anytime soon, because trucking is in such a glut of overcapacity. The loss of one major player will certainly help the bottom line of all the little carriers who pick up business once YRC has gone under. (Hopefully that means I can get work soon)??
')I don't think people will see shortages of anything being transported anytime soon, because trucking is in such a glut of overcapacity. The loss of one major player will certainly help the bottom line of all the little carriers who pick up business once YRC has gone under. (Hopefully that means I can get work soon)??
You just hit the nail on the head Repent, exactly, so many other trucking companies with idle trucks will fill the spot fast when other big trucking companies goes south, there will be no shortages because a lack of truckers, [sorry doomers & mos6507] I also think if a company has to much debt than it should file for BK protection and reorganize.
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Re: Do I see a black swan for trucking? Maybe tomarrow...?
by the48thronin » Thu 17 Dec 2009, 23:38:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'R')ail is the future. For every ton of cargo a train can move it 500 miles vs just over a 100 miles for a truck, depending on the source you read... A ship is even better...
some interesting stuff here:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Grain/ ... mption.htm
Rail needs to replace long haul trucking for almost everything at some point down the road. I could see trains moving more and more food long distances, like what these guys are doing:
http://www.railexusa.com/
We used Roadway at a warehouse i use to work at about 9 years ago. I remember they were cheap vs UPS so we always shipped heavy orders with them. I'm not sure why we were using UPS, but maybe they were faster... My boss was worse then Bill Lundberg from "Office Space"...
some interesting stuff here:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Grain/ ... mption.htm
Rail needs to replace long haul trucking for almost everything at some point down the road. I could see trains moving more and more food long distances, like what these guys are doing:
http://www.railexusa.com/
We used Roadway at a warehouse i use to work at about 9 years ago. I remember they were cheap vs UPS so we always shipped heavy orders with them. I'm not sure why we were using UPS, but maybe they were faster... My boss was worse then Bill Lundberg from "Office Space"...
and from your sources..
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')1.The metered tractor-trailer truck averaged 186.6 gross ton-miles per gallon and 90.5 net ton-miles per gallon when loaded 50 percent of total miles. The truck averaged 249.6 gross ton-miles per gallon when loaded and 108.8 gross ton-miles per gallon when empty. The 90.5 net ton-miles per gallon is 41.4 percent higher than the 64 net ton-mile estimate from a 1977 study of 25-ton trucks with 50 percent loaded miles.
Please note the following points that each and every study ignores...
Only 40 percent of all grain is hauled in grain belly dump trailers, the other 60 percent is hauled in end dump trailers.
The average belly dump grain trailer in the western states is equipped with a replaceable floor capable of converting that trailer to a usable flat bed or box trailer for low profile loads. So unlike the railroad which does have 50 percent empty mile average, those trucking companys might have a 35 percent or less empty mileage, and the end dumps do even better. OAKLEY Transport estimated their entire fleet average for end dumps of all kinds at 80 percent loaded miles.
So the numbers start out skewed. That is before you look at displacement.. ( Load to destination). Explanation of displacement as used here.
The average ;load does not start in a rail yard nor in a trucking company yard, BUT the rail yard has to be fed by trucks hauling the grain from farm to grain elevator, while the truck can haul from farm to any elevator in any direction including those not served by rail.
At this point a small historical lesson is apropos.. In the 19th century the rail lines were extended to most of rural America but land grant. For each mile of rail laid, the railroad was given 1 square mile of land. These grant s were alternated along the roadway, for an east west line the square miles were alternated north side then south side of the tracks. The revenue from sale or lease or use of that land was recompense for the expense of the layage of the line. In the late 70s when trucking was deregulated, some of the rural lines began to show losses, and in the 80s and 90s thousands of miles of track was abandoned to become national bike trails, hiking trails or simply abandoned ROW leaving many smaller communities with no rail service possibility even though those communities were in fact the result of rail road sale of land they had been given as payment for laying the original rail.
Trucking deregulation and later passenger bus deregulation denied even more of those rural communities of regular freight service. None of these losses have been overcome other than by the irregular route independent or small fleet trucker who singlehandedly and at great cost preserved those communities by providing service where no large company was interested in providing it. The abandonment of the fly over territories by the government and later by the corporate conglomerations that were created by the largess of the government of the assets of all American citizens ( specifically land and public funds) is a harbinger of the true value of GOVERNMENT intervention in " the public good" and the result after it is filtered by the government corrupted greed of those elites and their sycophants that use government power to achieve their personal enrichment.
Number doctoring and collective pressuring of dissenting opinions of research is becoming common knowledge long after it became the public tactic of those interest groups determined to promote the agenda feeding their pack of sycophants and politicians.
Count the number of transcontinental rail lines east west, and give me again the service numbers for transport by rail including dis;location of rail from need.. Then you might begin to have a glimmer of integrity to your arguments. Failing that agenda agenda agenda .......
BTW when you carry further into pretending the rail pollutes less lets compare emissions of 2007 or better yet 2010 diesel and bunker fuel burning locomotives...
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Re: Do I see a black swan for trucking? Maybe tomarrow...?
by the48thronin » Thu 17 Dec 2009, 23:45:17
When you leave specialized cargo such as grain the numbers skew differently.
Containers are displaced from railyards to destination, many times returing empty before being drug empty to loading points where as irregular route carriers make diminished empty mile running an art to enhance revenue. As an example, I ran 1200 miles loaded this last week, then 280 miles empty, then 1050 miles loaded, I have booked a load 48 miles from here that has 1020 loaded miles, then I will run empty 136 miles to pick up a load that goes 2120 miles... No where near 50 percent empty miles.
My ton mile would be awful tho because my product shipped is light weight, the real comparison the railroad doesn't even begoin to want to discuss is cube of used freight space in dealing with goods such as I move.
Containers are displaced from railyards to destination, many times returing empty before being drug empty to loading points where as irregular route carriers make diminished empty mile running an art to enhance revenue. As an example, I ran 1200 miles loaded this last week, then 280 miles empty, then 1050 miles loaded, I have booked a load 48 miles from here that has 1020 loaded miles, then I will run empty 136 miles to pick up a load that goes 2120 miles... No where near 50 percent empty miles.
My ton mile would be awful tho because my product shipped is light weight, the real comparison the railroad doesn't even begoin to want to discuss is cube of used freight space in dealing with goods such as I move.
Malthusian Riders Member!
Courtesy and Courage Sincerity and Self-control Honor and Loyalty a Code to Live By!
What do the miners do when the canary dies? EVACUATE THE MINE not argue about the color of it's feathers or buy a parrot instead.
Where is my pitchfork and torch? I need them for a visit to the castle!
Courtesy and Courage Sincerity and Self-control Honor and Loyalty a Code to Live By!
What do the miners do when the canary dies? EVACUATE THE MINE not argue about the color of it's feathers or buy a parrot instead.
Where is my pitchfork and torch? I need them for a visit to the castle!
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Re: Do I see a black swan for trucking? Maybe tomarrow...?
by the48thronin » Fri 18 Dec 2009, 00:05:37
The saga continues.....
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- YRC Worldwide Inc. bonds fell after the trucking company trying to avoid bankruptcy said it needed to extend the deadline for a debt exchange in order to convince enough bondholders to tender the securities.
YRC, the biggest U.S. trucker by sales, is extending the exchange offer deadline to Dec. 23, after investors holding 75 percent of its debt initially agreed to the exchange, below the 95 percent required by bank lenders. As of 5 p.m. in New York yesterday, participation fell to 57 percent, the Overland Park, Kansas-based company said in a statement. The company said it believes some bondholders have withdrawn because they want to tender their notes only on the expiration date.
“This moves the company backwards in its efforts to restructure out of court and again increases the probability of a bankruptcy filing in the near-term,” David Ross, a Baltimore- based analyst at Stifel Nicolaus & Co., wrote in a note today. Ross has a “sell” rating on the stock.
YRC’s $150 million of 8.5 percent notes due in April fell 2.5 cents on the dollar to 58.5 cents as of 12 p.m. in New York, according to Trace, the bond-price reporting system of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.
The company’s shares fell 7 cents, or 6.8 percent, to 94 cents, after earlier rising as much as 15 percent, on the Nasdaq Stock Market.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- YRC Worldwide Inc. bonds fell after the trucking company trying to avoid bankruptcy said it needed to extend the deadline for a debt exchange in order to convince enough bondholders to tender the securities.
YRC, the biggest U.S. trucker by sales, is extending the exchange offer deadline to Dec. 23, after investors holding 75 percent of its debt initially agreed to the exchange, below the 95 percent required by bank lenders. As of 5 p.m. in New York yesterday, participation fell to 57 percent, the Overland Park, Kansas-based company said in a statement. The company said it believes some bondholders have withdrawn because they want to tender their notes only on the expiration date.
“This moves the company backwards in its efforts to restructure out of court and again increases the probability of a bankruptcy filing in the near-term,” David Ross, a Baltimore- based analyst at Stifel Nicolaus & Co., wrote in a note today. Ross has a “sell” rating on the stock.
YRC’s $150 million of 8.5 percent notes due in April fell 2.5 cents on the dollar to 58.5 cents as of 12 p.m. in New York, according to Trace, the bond-price reporting system of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.
The company’s shares fell 7 cents, or 6.8 percent, to 94 cents, after earlier rising as much as 15 percent, on the Nasdaq Stock Market.
Malthusian Riders Member!
Courtesy and Courage Sincerity and Self-control Honor and Loyalty a Code to Live By!
What do the miners do when the canary dies? EVACUATE THE MINE not argue about the color of it's feathers or buy a parrot instead.
Where is my pitchfork and torch? I need them for a visit to the castle!
Courtesy and Courage Sincerity and Self-control Honor and Loyalty a Code to Live By!
What do the miners do when the canary dies? EVACUATE THE MINE not argue about the color of it's feathers or buy a parrot instead.
Where is my pitchfork and torch? I need them for a visit to the castle!
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