[SeaGypsy]

On average I earn $1,000 AUD per week while working; I spend average 4 months O/S each year. As I work remote I get discounts on tax. As I am in the health sector I get $15kpa tax free salary sacrifice. I end up paying $2,500 a year tax. Out of $35kpa. This includes the medicare rebate. So in reality I am paying less than 8% tax. This is in Australia.

[Tyler_JC]

SeaGypsy,

You aren't a good example of a typical Australian household.

[Revi]

I plan on dumping all my assets the second I retire or get sick. There is no point in having anything here in the US anyway.

We work and pile up a few possessions, then when we get sick (which is inevitable) they get taken away and re-distributed to others who lose those assets when they get old and sick, and the cycle continues.

It's like socialism, but we feel like we're playing the game for a while.

Why do you think so much is in corporate ownership here in the US?

Corporations don't get sick.

[HeckuvaJob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'W')ell...in my state the welfare moms still get their babies paid for by the state...so as far as i see, the system is still a complete failure.

[Cloud9]

Trust me they exist. They pick up their kids from school in Escalades. If you want cheaper health care, break the AmA's hold on the number of doctors we produce every year. If we had as many doctors as we have lawyers, health care would be affordable.

[HeckuvaJob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')rust me they exist. They pick up their kids from school in Escalades.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')rust me they exist. They pick up their kids from school in Escalades. If you want cheaper health care, break the AmA's hold on the number of doctors we produce every year. If we had as many doctors as we have lawyers, health care would be affordable.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he reforms being presented by the US government were pretty much akin to trying to solve gentrification by buying $1million condos for all of the homeless. It was a facially untenable promise that had to either get shot down now or fail in very short order because of the expense. Our healthcare system is a mess, and it desperately needs to be fixed. We need solutions that will reign in the use of overly expensive, and ineffective healthcare technologies. We can barely afford the system as it is now. Pretending we can give everyone access to the $1million ICU death without bankrupting ourselves is just silly. I'm still not sure what the game was all about, but the "reforms" the dems were fronting were never even remotely plausible.

[efarmer]

Smallpoxgirl wrote:

"The reforms being presented by the US government were pretty much akin to trying to solve gentrification by buying $1million condos for all of the homeless. It was a facially untenable promise that had to either get shot down now or fail in very short order because of the expense. Our healthcare system is a mess, and it desperately needs to be fixed. We need solutions that will reign in the use of overly expensive, and ineffective healthcare technologies. We can barely afford the system as it is now. Pretending we can give everyone access to the $1million ICU death without bankrupting ourselves is just silly. I'm still not sure what the game was all about, but the "reforms" the dems were fronting were never even remotely plausible."
<end of spg bullseye post>

What she said.

I would only add that the people you think you elected to work for you
have been hired by corporate and special interests and their new mission
is a red and blue tag team match to dismantle the American middle class
for quick profits. Legislation is indeed like making sausage and now you
know where they get the meat.

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')rust me they exist. They pick up their kids from school in Escalades. If you want cheaper health care, break the AmA's hold on the number of doctors we produce every year. If we had as many doctors as we have lawyers, health care would be affordable.

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he reforms being presented by the US government were pretty much akin to trying to solve gentrification by buying $1million condos for all of the homeless. It was a facially untenable promise that had to either get shot down now or fail in very short order because of the expense. Our healthcare system is a mess, and it desperately needs to be fixed. We need solutions that will reign in the use of overly expensive, and ineffective healthcare technologies. We can barely afford the system as it is now. Pretending we can give everyone access to the $1million ICU death without bankrupting ourselves is just silly. I'm still not sure what the game was all about, but the "reforms" the dems were fronting were never even remotely plausible.

[35Kas]

This shit ain't gonna fly. Requiring people to pay for private insurance by law is unconstitutional.

If I could afford health insurance I would already have it. If I have something serious I rather pay for the ticked and Cash for the doctor in another country. This will go nowhere...

I make less than 20K a year, honestly...

[Outcast_Searcher]

It's ALL about who will pay for healthcare. Most people want the best health care imaginable, but don't want to pay for it, or want to pay only a token amount. Sorry, no free lunch, no free healthcare, and no unicorns either, see, because our universe runs on physical laws that imply constraints exist. Sorry, but those are the breaks in the real world.

In countries with socialized medicine that works reasonably well, like England, the health care system is badly breaking the budget, and has been for years. Of course, the public doesn't want to pay higher taxes, but their representives scream loud and long over any talk about cutting benefits. The Economist has had articles discussing this repeatedly over the last few years. And, in these systems there are serious constraints on health care spending already.

And here in Uncle Sam land, the closest thing we have to socialized medicine is medicare / medicaid. It works great, generally, for the folks who have it (like my parents, and I've seen it up close while I handled the billing paperwok for years), but the program is a financial nightmare heading for a cliff, and no politicians have the courage to try and fix it.

In my mind, I'd prefer a reasonable public system like England or Canada where the indiividual is covered up to a REASONABLE extent. This would eliminate a horrendous amount of paperwork and worry for most people.

However, if you imagine that people in the U.S. might be willing to accept that there has to be SOME kind of gating factor on cost of care, just look at what occurred when recent objective data about mammogram cost-benefit analysis came out. Women and congress (and others) tended to go berserk. Congress wanted to guarantee basically unlimited funds/attention to the issue. The right AND the left tried to exploit the issue. Extrapolate this to any number of health care issues, and you can see how unlikely the idea of rational cost containment is in this country.

If you still doubt it, watch MSNBC some night. There are almost constant complaints that some folks are against ANY lifetime cap on medical insurance. That's right - folks want to pay little or nothing and expect INFINITE potential benefits -- and much of the left says this with a straight face.

"Why we lost healthcare" is why we're "losing everything" in this country. There is a total lack of willingness to have sustainable financial or resource limits by the voters, and their representatives are too corrupt or too cowardly to show some leadership and force some sort of cost controls into the system for ANY major program.

Enjoy those free infinite benefits, and say hi to your pet unicorn for me!


edit -- fixed dyslexic typo.

[HeckuvaJob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bshirt', 'T')hey exist by the boatload in the midwest. I know it's PC to pretend they don't and hey I can stick my head in the sand too but....

[efarmer]

When being robbed by corporate operative politicians, I have not been able
to decide if it feels better if they play on my fears, religious beliefs, and show
me examples of abuse by welfare recipients and illegal immigrants, or if
I prefer their counterpart, who cloak their robbery in justice and progress
for the common man and postures this common man's government as his
protector. Especially when they share almost identical corporate funding.

We are a nation that throws energy and huge resources at almost every
problem that arises in lieu of careful and long term strategy. This works
while you have cheap oil, cheap energy, and plenty of money.

I am not shocked that there isn't a strategy coming out of Congress
better than what we are seeing, the red guys holding their breath
until they turn blue because they are temporarily weaned from the
corporate tit, and the blue guys arguing until they turn red, because
they represent competing corporate interests due to the type
of health industry corporate interests in their respective home districts.
For example, what corporate interest is in Connecticut?

How many people can you place in an income generating role between
a doctor and a patient before you disconnect them?

We are answering this question in real time.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', 'T')he only country in the western world not to have a comprohensive public health system. My Mother broke her leg not 5 months ago and within 2 hours (we live half an hour out of town) she was on an operating table.

Total cost for care : $000000000000000000000000.0000000

So you stick with your walmart hospital care if you want too.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f you say you want more benefits you are implicitly saying you want higher taxes. This might be a legitimate position and a good idea but it's not what American politicians say. They claim they can offer us low taxes AND high quality government services. That's just not possible.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HeckuvaJob', '[')img]http://www.newser.com/getimage.aspx?mediaid=315924[/img]

[drew]

The tall one is Jamie Dimon. Isn't he excellent? The smug look he ALWAYS has on his face tells the whole world that he truly believes that yes, he's excellent!

Drew

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HeckuvaJob', '
')
Instead of asking how every other industrialized country provides its citizens with healthcare -
we should have first asked why.