[mos6507]

Here is a good investment. Look, it even grows!

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', ' ') If your too much of a chicken to buy or sell a few shares, you can at least check the stock now and then, but it encompasses the Cornucopian/Doomer argument very nicely, don't you think?

[Quinny]

Nahnah nahnana. Double dare.

Chldish response. Grow up.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'N')ahnah nahnana. Double dare.

Chldish response. Grow up.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'i')f you are right.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o what is the market deciding about the Peak Oil debate? Follow the money. And lately, the money is interested in renewables. There is no sense of hopelessness at all in the broader investment community. Rather, there is a sense of opportunity and challenge on behalf of both private enterprise and government in China.

[Quinny]

Leave it to the markets.

Of course there's a limit to growth!

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'i')f you are right.

[Newfie]

Mos,

Nice!

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o what is the market deciding about the Peak Oil debate? Follow the money. And lately, the money is interested in renewables. There is no sense of hopelessness at all in the broader investment community. Rather, there is a sense of opportunity and challenge on behalf of both private enterprise and government in China.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o what is the market deciding about the Peak Oil debate? Follow the money. And lately, the money is interested in renewables. There is no sense of hopelessness at all in the broader investment community. Rather, there is a sense of opportunity and challenge on behalf of both private enterprise and government in China.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o you think that members of PeakOil.com perceive reality so much better than the broad market? I think not.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') Following the money is a doomed strategy because the money goes to where it's felt the most return is possible. That is, it is based on an assumption of no limits.

It is that assumption that ensures collapse.

[TheDude]

Amazing Pictures , Pollution in China | ChinaHush. Amazing in this usage translates as "fucking horrifying." This would be that Population curve trending down on the LTG graphs. I guess. Suppose they can live in their Satanic mills for centuries on end, really, continue to breed. When your body's covered with lesions and sores what makes the time go by better than sex?

Shorting one company to prove a point about the globe, that's a bit selective. How about the sector as a whole? China will no doubt install generation in any form it can, until it can't, after their bubble economy implodes. The China Bubble's Coming -- But Not the One You Think.

[Homesteader]

"Following The Money", as Tony says, leads inevitably over the cliff.

The posters and others who argue that one species doesn't matter need to start thinking holistically. Every species is a domino, every species is a lightening rod for environmental degradation and another waypoint on our own road over the cliff.

Consider this, it is just a little old fish of no consequence. . . right?

[b]A Fish Oil Story[/b]

"related to me recently how his research uncovered that populations were once so large that “the vanguard of the fish’s annual migration would reach Cape Cod while the rearguard was still in Maine.” Menhaden filter-feed nearly exclusively on algae, the most abundant forage in the world, and are prolifically good at converting that algae into "

"But menhaden are entering the final losing phases of a century-and-a-half fight for survival that began when humans started turning huge schools into fertilizer and lamp oil. Once petroleum-based oils replaced menhaden oil in lamps, trillions of menhaden were ground into feed for hogs, chickens and pets. Today, hundreds of millions of pounds of them are converted into lipstick, salmon feed, paint, “buttery spread,” salad dressing and, yes, some of those omega-3 supplements you have been forcing on your children. All of these products can be made with more environmentally benign substitutes, but menhaden are still used in great (though declining) numbers because they can be caught and processed cheaply."

"For the last decade, one company, Omega Protein of Houston, has been catching 90 percent of the nation’s menhaden."


"Quite simply, menhaden keep the water clean. The muddy brown color of the Long Island Sound and the growing dead zones in the Chesapeake Bay are the direct result of inadequate water filtration — a job that was once carried out by menhaden. An adult menhaden can rid four to six gallons of water of algae in a minute. Imagine then the water-cleaning capacity of the half-billion menhaden we “reduce” into oil every year. "

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/opini ... .html?_r=1

Unfortunately for the human species, ideas or actions intended to move cultures or societies from their preferred state of being are met with derision, hostility and violence by the public and the governments. That is why we are going over the cliff. Our preferred state is huge consumption, convenience and apathy. The people of our "killer take all" culture are not going to
move out of this preferred state of existence until all is killed, consumed, and polluted beyond our ability to utilize it for business as usual.

As resources become scarce the wealthy among us will consume them as status symbols. They do it now with exvatravagent dinners of endangered species on their plates. There are many more examples. Extragent consumption is a status sympbol, likely one with a genetic component, like the biggest bull elk servicing the most cow elk. Convincing people on a global scale to act against their genetic hard wiring when the wealthy elite are continuing to grossly over consume and flaunt their symbols of wealth, power and position is doomed to fail.

1200 limos not being enough for the Copenhagen talks is a recent example. How can the we take the talks, and any calls to action that result from the talks, serously when the participants clearly don't.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') Following the money is a doomed strategy because the money goes to where it's felt the most return is possible. That is, it is based on an assumption of no limits.

It is that assumption that ensures collapse.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') Following the money is a doomed strategy because the money goes to where it's felt the most return is possible. That is, it is based on an assumption of no limits.

It is that assumption that ensures collapse.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Maybe I'm getting old or daft, but it seems to be that there is a bult-in assumption by 99% of folks that implies that there must be MORE for things to be better.

I'm not convinced. I can now have countless digital media available to me without owning any disks, paper books, etc. Since I'm an information junkie, if you can get me the data I want in a usable form, I don't need or want much beyond what I need to be healthy and independent.

Actually, to me, more is worse as it implies complexity, and therefore a hassle and a waste of time. Sort of a Maslowe's heirarchy based on real needs instead of what marketers want to sell you.

Now, living in a culture that, for example, will cling to life for as long as possible in a nursing home, no matter HOW horrible the quality of life, or WHAT the cost in real and/or emotional terms to self, family, friends, and society at large -- I suspect that the odds of convincing 99% of the populace that LESS chosen carefully may be MUCH better is about zero.

That, IMO, is most unfortunate, and it also, IMO, is the true root of our problems.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')LESS chosen carefully may be MUCH better

[DefiledEngine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I suspect that when we really are racing down the rollercoaster in the present tense, and experiencing each milestone, one blow after the next, up close and personal, that a lot of that false positivity about how much better life would be after TSHTF will dissolve. Perhaps the only thing that will really satisfy me is not feeling like Chicken Little anymore, no longer having to suffer in silence.