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UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Maddog78 » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 18:00:27

True that but 5,590 of those students aren't americans anyways. :-D

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')SC enrolls highest number of foreign students of any U.S. university
The campus, which recruits heavily in Asia, had 7,482 international students in the 2008-09 school year. UCLA was eighth, with 5,590.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 18:22:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'T')rue that but 5,590 of those students aren't americans anyways. :-D

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')SC enrolls highest number of foreign students of any U.S. university
The campus, which recruits heavily in Asia, had 7,482 international students in the 2008-09 school year. UCLA was eighth, with 5,590.
Weakening GBP increasing costs in the US, bring it on! We can take a few thousand of those foriegn currency generating students of your hands for you, no worries.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 18:31:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'G')uess there is not mutch point in explaning what good migth come from a well educated society.

There seems to me that many americans today are against any cost that will benefit the americans of tomorrow.


The Amerians of tomorrow that don't understand why their country exists in the first place? So that government doesn't steal your money (taxation) and distribute it to special interests. Americans live in a totalitarian socialist state.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 18:45:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'T')he Amerians of tomorrow that don't understand why their country exists in the first place? So that government doesn't steal your money (taxation) and distribute it to special interests. Americans live in a totalitarian socialist state.

You mean Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Cargill, ADM?
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 19:03:53

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=ranking+universities&page=1&qsrc=121&dm=all&ab=0&title=World+Universities%27+ranking+on+the+Web%3A+Home&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webometrics.info%2F&sg=1M99OyPHPNyRHC2C2%2BmxIdlbKqy0U%2F3OYyReCQEE4q8%3D&tsp=1258757401375

It is true that UCLA is ranked in the top 20 globally.

It is also quite true that a big school like this raises money from all sorts of sources, including research contracts, government grants, its endowment, and a lot of other sources.....including outright government subsidies. This system was developed in the 1800's because it was found that because research activities that were going on at these places increased productivity in such areas as agriculture, and industry, the entire state/region benefited from the research done by these fine institutions, many of which are ranked above it, including such noted "cow colleges" as the U of Illinois, Texas A and M, and the U of Minnesota.

So there was a compelling reason at one time for the state and federal governments to support these big schools, and during the GI bill era, it became possible for our veterans to go to school and supposedly that helped everybody.

That still does not let the officials off the hook for either keeping costs to a minimum, plus being honest about the situation and going to the taxpayers for help if needed, or going to the people that benefit, the students, to pay more for the honor of attending this school.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?secti ... id=6919561
csufresno.edu/engineering/departments.../Tuition-comparison.DOC

It looks like if it was all about the degree, they could just as easily go to Fresno State and pay a lot less.... but that's fresno....
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby TreebeardsUncle » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 21:14:52

Actually, the undergraduates are not that important economically.
Graduate, professional, and corporatate r& d gives a higher return.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 21:59:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'T')he Amerians of tomorrow that don't understand why their country exists in the first place? So that government doesn't steal your money (taxation) and distribute it to special interests. Americans live in a totalitarian socialist state.

You mean Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Cargill, ADM?


I mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Gorm » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 04:16:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'T')he Amerians of tomorrow that don't understand why their country exists in the first place? So that government doesn't steal your money (taxation) and distribute it to special interests. Americans live in a totalitarian socialist state.

You mean Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Cargill, ADM?


I mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.


If you se taxation as stealing your reasoning is really broken. Futher debate pointless.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 11:46:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'T')he Amerians of tomorrow that don't understand why their country exists in the first place? So that government doesn't steal your money (taxation) and distribute it to special interests. Americans live in a totalitarian socialist state.

You mean Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Cargill, ADM?


I mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.


If you se taxation as stealing your reasoning is really broken. Futher debate pointless.


You're a socialist, I don't expect you to understand. However, I'm simply being facetious and playing devil's advocate. I don't believe anything, I was raised in a post-modern school system, lol.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Gorm » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 13:34:39

I mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.[/quote]

If you se taxation as stealing your reasoning is really broken. Futher debate pointless.[/quote]

You're a socialist, I don't expect you to understand. However, I'm simply being facetious and playing devil's advocate. I don't believe anything, I was raised in a post-modern school system, lol.[/quote]

...well no.. the devils advocate would have done a better job, he would have used arguments..
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 16:43:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you se taxation as stealing your reasoning is really broken. Futher debate pointless.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou're a socialist, I don't expect you to understand. However, I'm simply being facetious and playing devil's advocate. I don't believe anything, I was raised in a post-modern school system, lol.


...well no.. the devils advocate would have done a better job, he would have used arguments


Hows this. The social contract's logic fails. If the government can tax me and it's considered good, why can't I tax the government? If something claims to be good, it must always be good. It can't be good in one case and evil in another. I would be considered crazy if I were to tax the government. However, the group of people who call themselves 'the government' claim the right to tax me with or without my consent.

Here's another. If the government claims to rule by consent, and I refuse my consent, but am still expected to pay my taxes on threat of torture (prison), or depending on the country, shot, is this not extortion?

Do you understand the difference between coercion and voluntary transaction? If not, "there is no point to further conversation." Can something be voluntary and coercive at the same time?

State your premises, do you believe violence solves social problems? Do you support the use of violence against me to force your will upon me?
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 17:44:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', '[') If the government can tax me and it's considered good, why can't I tax the government?


But you can. Especially if you are a Swede. Choose welfare as a career. Buy a 1-way ticket to South Pole and ask them to save your sorry ass. There are many options. Putting an effort to get a usual do-nothing governmental job counts too. Finally, take power in your hands, become a president/king/dicator/ets.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 18:26:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'I')f the government can tax me and it's considered good, why can't I tax the government?


But you can. Especially if you are a Swede. Choose welfare as a career.


That is not 'taxing the government', that is stealing from your fellow [insert concept of nation/tribe here]-cattle using the monopoly on the right to initiate force of the state to impose your will upon them. (Of course some people have no ability to receive charity anymore, and sorely need it, since the government takes half the populace's wealth that before institution of said welfare programs were taken care of by family or other charities.)
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 21 Nov 2009, 18:35:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', ' ')If something claims to be good, it must always be good. It can't be good in one case and evil in another.

Unless you are a simpleton then yes it can. Adding heat can be good when a room is at 0C but not good when at 30C. Eating is good when one is hungry but not to the point when it endagers our health and so on and on and on and on and on and........


As for you social contract theory, welll unless you are advocating [quote=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism]Anarchism [/quote] then there is always a need for a government.

Somehow you dont strike me as the anarchist type though.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Stonemason » Sun 22 Nov 2009, 00:29:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', ' ')If something claims to be good, it must always be good. It can't be good in one case and evil in another.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nless you are a simpleton then yes it can. Adding heat can be good when a room is at 0C but not good when at 30C. Eating is good when one is hungry but not to the point when it endagers our health and so on and on and on and on and on and........


As for you social contract theory, welll unless you are advocating Anarchism then there is always a need for a government.

Somehow you dont strike me as the anarchist type though.


Of course I was referring to ethics, not space heating... Equals barter, others choose to initiate the use of force. Apparently, 'equality under the law is paramount and manditory'. These are their maxims of law.
Last edited by Stonemason on Sun 22 Nov 2009, 02:53:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 22 Nov 2009, 01:28:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'I') mean everyone the government steals money from through taxation and anyone they then give that money to.


If you se taxation as stealing your reasoning is really broken. Futher debate pointless.

Taxation is the price the government charges you for permission to live outside one of their cages. My favorite part is how in America you are required to self-incriminate every year when you file your returns.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')axation for social services hints at an equitable trade. It suggests a quid pro quo, a relationship of justice. But, the essential condition of trade, that it be carried on willingly, is absent from taxation; its very use of compulsion removes taxation from the field of commerce and puts it squarely into the field of politics. Taxes cannot be compared to dues paid to a voluntary organization for such services as one expects from membership, because the choice of withdrawal does not exist. In refusing to trade one may deny oneself a profit, but the only alternative to paying taxes is jail. The suggestion of equity in taxation is spurious. If we get any­thing for the taxes we pay it is not because we want it; it is forced on us.

http://mises.org/etexts/taxrob.asp
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby FairMaiden » Tue 08 Dec 2009, 19:22:34

The whole business of education has become too important to the GDP. So students have to rack up these incredibly large student loans to do jobs that do NOT require that level of education. In order to be a warehouse clerk, you need a 2 yr "Logistics" diploma now. My brother had to get a 4 yr BA in Business to be a paper salesman. It is RIDICULOUS. But is a money maker so everyone keeps the wheel turning. And I've trained some of these degree recipients and I wonder how they ever passed when they don't even know what "bullet form" is...oh wait...I do know...their student loan application was approved!
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 10 Dec 2009, 14:37:30

Everyone needs to justify his conversion of food into crap. Teachers are no exception. Besides, if you reduce teachers, students will have to justify the same thing for 5-10 more years. Its not that easy considering that nowdays 1 man makes food for 200 and needs help of only 2-3 people to be able to do that. What the rest of the people are supposed to do?
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 10 Dec 2009, 15:27:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', ' ')If something claims to be good, it must always be good. It can't be good in one case and evil in another.
Unless you are a simpleton then yes it can. Adding heat can be good when a room is at 0C but not good when at 30C. Eating is good when one is hungry but not to the point when it endagers our health and so on and on and on and on and on and........ Somehow you dont strike me as the anarchist type though.
I think we should recognize "social contract theory" as a crock, though. Stone does have a point. Where on Earth do you move to that you aren't forced to submit to some government authority that has lines drawn on a map? Maybe Antarctica, and the UN would probably try to exert control there.

Social contract theory is no more valid or invalid than "rule by divine consent". All rule, regardless of theory, ultimately resides in the ability to use force (to restrain, imprison, murder or maim others). The only thing that distinguishes some societies from others, is the degree to which force is actually employed (rather than threatened).

"Consent of the governed" is like a woman walking in a dark alley who meets a man who says nothing to her but has a knife in his hand. Democratic theory would say she had consensual sex with him.

As to what actually comes from this recognition of reality, I'm not sure. Maybe when you look at another country that has "less freedoms", just remember you only have the freedoms that someonelse has decided it is not worth taking from you.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: UCLA Protests Over 32% Fee Hike

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 11 Dec 2009, 19:16:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')you only have the freedoms that someonelse has decided it is not worth taking from you.

No you have your history back to front. We only have the freedoms someone else thought it was worth fighting for. I am more free than any other generation of the bottom 90% that has lived on this island in the past 1000 years. Probibly longer.

From the levellers and other offshoots of the New Model Army, through the social movements of the 1700 too the steady growth in working class resistance that broke out in the Peterloo masicare in Manchester. Then on through the various movements that coalecesed into the chartists and the trade union movement. This eventualy led to the acceptance of universal sufferage for all males. The suffragettes and there allies who fought for womans votes, the rise of an independent working class voice in the labour movement and the long hard clawing for workers rights that led to the eventual victory of labour in the 1945 election and the use of taxation to break up and destroy the artistocracies grip on ownership of large parts of the country and the introduction of a national health service.

The fight for civil rights continued through the 50s, 60s and 70s when it drove protestant christian values out of legislation and allowed people to chose there own lives more how they wanted them lived. It guarenteed an income for people who were retired, it prevented discrimination against people based on religion or colour.

The rights we are losing is because people are not willing to continue to fight. But that is changing if you know where to look.
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