PeakOil is You
Calipari US classified report CRACKED!!!!
by eastbay » Mon 02 May 2005, 12:29:05
Unfortunately, I can't trust the military when it reports on this kind of thing anymore. Ever since we kept on insisting we'd shot a bunch of a terrorist meeting even after witnesses produced videos of the wedding, our credibility has been zero.
I too would certainly agree with that. But moreso, the underlying purpose in invading and occupying Iraq in the first place was based on a pack of lies. I trust nothing coming out of the US military or from the US government regarding the idiotic, wasteful and pointless military occupation of Iraq.
I certainly don't believe a single word from the US military regarding the cover-up of the killings of the Italian journalist.
And by the way, it's technically not a 'war-zone', it's an 'occupation-zone' with (mostly) local insurgents fighting to remove the invading forces.
EastBay
I too would certainly agree with that. But moreso, the underlying purpose in invading and occupying Iraq in the first place was based on a pack of lies. I trust nothing coming out of the US military or from the US government regarding the idiotic, wasteful and pointless military occupation of Iraq.
I certainly don't believe a single word from the US military regarding the cover-up of the killings of the Italian journalist.
And by the way, it's technically not a 'war-zone', it's an 'occupation-zone' with (mostly) local insurgents fighting to remove the invading forces.
EastBay
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by smallpoxgirl » Mon 02 May 2005, 12:54:41
The sad part of all this is you can blow away a car load of civilians and walk away scot free, but what do you want to bet that the guy that was responsible for redacting that report gets court martialed?
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by rerere » Mon 02 May 2005, 13:06:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rerere', 'B')ased on? You've made the claim, now back it up with the legal arguments.
We're not fighting an army. We're not fighting a "country". And lastly, the party we're fighting has not even, in any way shape or form, attempted to abide by the Geneva Convention.
Cutting off the heads of prisoners pretty much invalidates about any Humanitariam Treatment Treaty signed in, oh, since the inception of war.
Is that your 'legal' answer? A hippy-touchy-feely appeal to emotion? And your emotional appeal is to race to the bottom of bad behavior and not take the moral high ground and adhere to the Geneva Convention?
I would like to think that American Citizens would ask the American Govenrment to claim the moral high ground and not wollow in the mud, as it makes statements like 'The rape rooms of Saddam are closed for business' seem less credible.
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by threadbear » Mon 02 May 2005, 13:18:43
The "my country, right or wrong" crowd are in for a big surprise. Wait till the US starts using these techniques (targeted assassinations) on it's own citizens, on a regular basis.
In Stalinist Russia, it wasn't just those accused of being counter-revolutionaries, but even those who the so called counter revolutionaries associated with, in the most casual manner.
So keep braying like a demented pack of mules about how great your massively ridiculous country is, until you get hauled away for guilt by association crimes--like posting on message boards frequented by liberals.
In Stalinist Russia, it wasn't just those accused of being counter-revolutionaries, but even those who the so called counter revolutionaries associated with, in the most casual manner.
So keep braying like a demented pack of mules about how great your massively ridiculous country is, until you get hauled away for guilt by association crimes--like posting on message boards frequented by liberals.
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by Roy » Mon 02 May 2005, 13:30:14
Traditionally, America has been the "good guys". We treated Japenese POWs fairly in spite of the way they treated US POWs.
Same with German POWs.
The highest levels of our government have authorized torture and the circumvention of the Geneva Convention. This is not the American way in the traditional sense.
The only people who see the US as the good guys are American citizens. If you don't see anything wrong with that then I think you need to study history a little more. Again parallels.
No one even responded to the ideal that Italians would likely have been aware of the American Forces rules of engagement (IE fire on vehicles approaching checkpoints that don't respond to command to stop).
How would military men not know this? How could the Italians have entered the Green Zone without passing through AT LEAST one American Checkpoint? They couldn't have. Are our communcations that inefficient?
I think not. Even in the 40's our communications network was effective enough to facilitate communication between security checkpoints.
Am I to believe that our modern high tech army doesn't have radios with a 2 mile range?
That the Italians didn't know they would be attacked if they attempted to run a checkpoint?
No. I believe there was no formal checkpoint as such. If the Italians didn't know about our rules of engagement and checkpoint procedures, they would never have made it to within 800 meters of the airport. No way. They would've been fired upon at the heavily fortified entrance to the Green Zone no?
Something here is causing me a little cognitive dissonance.
This thing reeks of secretive coverups by the US government. Further proof of suspicious motives is the mainstream media, FOX in particular, attacking Segrena as an American hating communist.
Do you guys get the picture? Most of the world who aren't on the dole don't like the current American government or their foreign policy.
One has to ask why. Are we really in the right if most of the world doesn't think so?
I don't think so.
Same with German POWs.
The highest levels of our government have authorized torture and the circumvention of the Geneva Convention. This is not the American way in the traditional sense.
The only people who see the US as the good guys are American citizens. If you don't see anything wrong with that then I think you need to study history a little more. Again parallels.
No one even responded to the ideal that Italians would likely have been aware of the American Forces rules of engagement (IE fire on vehicles approaching checkpoints that don't respond to command to stop).
How would military men not know this? How could the Italians have entered the Green Zone without passing through AT LEAST one American Checkpoint? They couldn't have. Are our communcations that inefficient?
I think not. Even in the 40's our communications network was effective enough to facilitate communication between security checkpoints.
Am I to believe that our modern high tech army doesn't have radios with a 2 mile range?
That the Italians didn't know they would be attacked if they attempted to run a checkpoint?
No. I believe there was no formal checkpoint as such. If the Italians didn't know about our rules of engagement and checkpoint procedures, they would never have made it to within 800 meters of the airport. No way. They would've been fired upon at the heavily fortified entrance to the Green Zone no?
Something here is causing me a little cognitive dissonance.
This thing reeks of secretive coverups by the US government. Further proof of suspicious motives is the mainstream media, FOX in particular, attacking Segrena as an American hating communist.
Do you guys get the picture? Most of the world who aren't on the dole don't like the current American government or their foreign policy.
One has to ask why. Are we really in the right if most of the world doesn't think so?
I don't think so.
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by big_rc » Mon 02 May 2005, 13:43:05
Specop,
I think what you are missing here is that is doesn't matter if the car was speeding to a checkpoint or not. The point is that the US is handling this situation so poorly that Condi should be slapped upside the head. Is US foreign policy being run by idiots? We should be prostrating ourselves before the Italians and every other word out of Bush's mouth should be "sorry". Bush or Cheney should have been on a plane to Rome the next day after this incident occured. Seriously, where in the hell is the diplomacy? Why didn't they find the soldiers in some kind of error to not piss off the Italians even more then make some type of serious face-saving reparations to appease everyone's hurt feelings. This is not freaking brain surgery and we are about to lose another ally for this stupid war because of our diplomatic stupidty.
Edit: Does anyone know if the US has issued a formal apology for this incident? I hope so, because if they didn't, that is just plain stupid.
I think what you are missing here is that is doesn't matter if the car was speeding to a checkpoint or not. The point is that the US is handling this situation so poorly that Condi should be slapped upside the head. Is US foreign policy being run by idiots? We should be prostrating ourselves before the Italians and every other word out of Bush's mouth should be "sorry". Bush or Cheney should have been on a plane to Rome the next day after this incident occured. Seriously, where in the hell is the diplomacy? Why didn't they find the soldiers in some kind of error to not piss off the Italians even more then make some type of serious face-saving reparations to appease everyone's hurt feelings. This is not freaking brain surgery and we are about to lose another ally for this stupid war because of our diplomatic stupidty.
Edit: Does anyone know if the US has issued a formal apology for this incident? I hope so, because if they didn't, that is just plain stupid.
Simon's Law: Everything put together falls apart sooner or later.
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
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by threadbear » Mon 02 May 2005, 13:55:59
Big RC, The more I watch what's going on--the complete disregard for consensus building, and international opinion, the more I become convinced that Bushco's ultimate goal is to control the Middle East, using bunker buster nukes. They simply refuse to waste precious resources on maintaining a public relations facade, at this point. I am fully expecting that Israel is going to act as the proxy to destroy Iran and likely Syria. It will be quite amusing when the two mobsters, Sharon and company, and Bush and company, start fighting over the spoils of war. This will not work out to Israel's advantage. I would be so outta there, if I was a citizen of either country.
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by Specop_007 » Mon 02 May 2005, 21:47:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'S')pecop,
I think what you are missing here is that is doesn't matter if the car was speeding to a checkpoint or not. The point is that the US is handling this situation so poorly that Condi should be slapped upside the head. Is US foreign policy being run by idiots? We should be prostrating ourselves before the Italians and every other word out of Bush's mouth should be "sorry". Bush or Cheney should have been on a plane to Rome the next day after this incident occured. Seriously, where in the hell is the diplomacy? Why didn't they find the soldiers in some kind of error to not piss off the Italians even more then make some type of serious face-saving reparations to appease everyone's hurt feelings. This is not freaking brain surgery and we are about to lose another ally for this stupid war because of our diplomatic stupidty.
Edit: Does anyone know if the US has issued a formal apology for this incident? I hope so, because if they didn't, that is just plain stupid.
I think what you are missing here is that is doesn't matter if the car was speeding to a checkpoint or not. The point is that the US is handling this situation so poorly that Condi should be slapped upside the head. Is US foreign policy being run by idiots? We should be prostrating ourselves before the Italians and every other word out of Bush's mouth should be "sorry". Bush or Cheney should have been on a plane to Rome the next day after this incident occured. Seriously, where in the hell is the diplomacy? Why didn't they find the soldiers in some kind of error to not piss off the Italians even more then make some type of serious face-saving reparations to appease everyone's hurt feelings. This is not freaking brain surgery and we are about to lose another ally for this stupid war because of our diplomatic stupidty.
Edit: Does anyone know if the US has issued a formal apology for this incident? I hope so, because if they didn't, that is just plain stupid.
EXACTLY! THATS the issue. And I'll agree 110%. It isnt the fact this was a honest mistake, its how we're handling it.
But everyone wants to assume for some reason that the American version of the story is someone wrong, simply because they are being blinded by their hatred of America. If America provided irrefutable proof that the car was speeding towards the checkpoint, most of the twits around here (And other liberal sites) would STILL say we were wrong, we were to blame.
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Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
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by Specop_007 » Mon 02 May 2005, 21:49:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rerere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rerere', 'B')ased on? You've made the claim, now back it up with the legal arguments.
We're not fighting an army. We're not fighting a "country". And lastly, the party we're fighting has not even, in any way shape or form, attempted to abide by the Geneva Convention.
Cutting off the heads of prisoners pretty much invalidates about any Humanitariam Treatment Treaty signed in, oh, since the inception of war.
Is that your 'legal' answer? A hippy-touchy-feely appeal to emotion? And your emotional appeal is to race to the bottom of bad behavior and not take the moral high ground and adhere to the Geneva Convention?
I would like to think that American Citizens would ask the American Govenrment to claim the moral high ground and not wollow in the mud, as it makes statements like 'The rape rooms of Saddam are closed for business' seem less credible.
touchy feely?
Explain to me how the Geneva Convention applies to a terrorist organization not recognized by any country in the world as any type of standing military? The Geneva Convention does not apply, its simple as that. I suggest you read it.
So let me ask you, why is it your so damned concerned about a couple naked pictures, but seeing peoples heads being cut off doesnt bother you? Know why? Because, your so deadset in your ignorant "America is wrong" belief that NOTHING could possibly overshadow some naked pictures. Getting your head hacked off with a rusty knife is ok, but God forbid we make them pose naked. Oh the tragedy. Oh the horror.
Your a damned disgrace. Approving of cutting off heads, but bitching about a bunch of college type pranks? Yeah, real good argument there.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble