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Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby thuja » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 21:03:15

Don't get me wroing- there is plenty of doom to talk about. We need to have an honest conversation about the extent of what is about to unfold. And that conversation does include severe and ongoing economic contraction, increased poverty, price inflation in commodities and food leading to increased hunger, famine and resource wars. PLENTY of doom to talk about...I ain't no cornucopian.

But hiding out in doomsteads with a cache of gold and guns? Preparing to live off the sea? 5 billion dead in 5 years...?

How about this- all the folks who think 5 billion people will die in the next 5 years...if you're wrong...you'll stop posting on this site...good?
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Revi » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 21:05:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ')Seriously, I think in a poll conducted a while back at least half of you believed that 5 billion people would die in the next 10 years. Puh--------leaze!

...

And on what basis do you dismiss that possibility?
Is not the task of feeding nine billion people a daunting one?
Will not peak oil make it that much harder to achieve? Can we feed the worlds population on algae oil and solar power?


I don't think 5 billion people will die in the next 10 years. I think it will take until mid century before we see the major die off.

We could see a few famines in the next 10 years, however.

A couple of bad harvests and we'll be in trouble.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Pops » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 21:38:54

What I can't figure out is why it is such a burden for people with different ideas to all post on the same site - if you want an echo chamber, start your own board and invite those who think just like you, problem solved.

But here, we'll try to let everyone have their say. It would be nice if people could say their piece in a civil manner.

You start a thread, you are the boss, set whatever rules you want. You want to talk about battery technology? Great, make it clear you want to talk about different materials, charging methods, and whatever. You can't expect everyone to agree with you but you can expect to not be heckled for mentioning batteries. If someone steps on your thread and is contributing nothing but grief and taking your discussion off topic, ask them to bug off, if they don't, hit that little button and report 'em.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby thuja » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 23:47:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')hat I can't figure out is why it is such a burden for people with different ideas to all post on the same site - if you want an echo chamber, start your own board and invite those who think just like you, problem solved.

But here, we'll try to let everyone have their say. It would be nice if people could say their piece in a civil manner.

You start a thread, you are the boss, set whatever rules you want. You want to talk about battery technology? Great, make it clear you want to talk about different materials, charging methods, and whatever. You can't expect everyone to agree with you but you can expect to not be heckled for mentioning batteries. If someone steps on your thread and is contributing nothing but grief and taking your discussion off topic, ask them to bug off, if they don't, hit that little button and report 'em.


I don't want to censor what people write. I am hoping for a sea change in how people appraoch this issue. I'm hoping that the uber-doomers stop prevailing here. I am hoping for a revolution towards approaching this very intractable problem in a rational way.

This site is called PO.com and its populated by far too many survivalists and apocalyptists. They make anyone who study this issue with intelligence look...dumb.

I do not want censorship. People can post what they want. But when people post utter shit, its time for the rest of us to call them on it...
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby shortonsense » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 00:17:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')This site is called PO.com and its populated by far too many survivalists and apocalyptists. They make anyone who study this issue with intelligence look...dumb.

I do not want censorship. People can post what they want. But when people post utter shit, its time for the rest of us to call them on it...


Maybe we can just recommend them to some of the other sites more oriented towards their particular beliefs? Sort of like a classy town giving out one way tickets to bums to another scummier town, knowing that they'll fit in better there? 8O
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Dr. Ofellati » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 00:45:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')
I do not want censorship. People can post what they want. But when people post utter shit, its time for the rest of us to call them on it...


Ok. I call you on it.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 01:00:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dr. Ofellati', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')
I do not want censorship. People can post what they want. But when people post utter shit, its time for the rest of us to call them on it...


Ok. I call you on it.


That's pretty funny.

Welcome Dr. Ofellati!
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby hardtootell-2 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 01:53:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')This site is called PO.com and its populated by far too many survivalists and apocalyptists. They make anyone who study this issue with intelligence look...dumb.


While I take your point Thuja, but let me play devil's advocate.
There may be some value in trying to shock our sleeping population out of their destructive habits.
What if, some of the more rational but dark outcomes turn out to be correct. What if Lovelock and Kunstler are bang on and the "culture" of PO is needed, warts and all?

IMHO- and I am no prophet, there are too many converging crises for BAU to continue for much longer.
My favorite thread on PO is what I did/learned to prepare for a Post peak world .When you read the postings there, does it seem whacked to you? People are not in bunkers. They are pursuing some measure of self sufficiency for their own peace of mind. They have my admiration at least. They may be wrong about the timing but at least they are not in dept up to their eyeballs and a burden on society. Personally, I don't care if the culture of PO is perceived as Dumb. I am so private in my personal life that almost no one knows I am a (optimistic) doomer.

What I think is dumb are the PO deniers. Short on facts, long on effort and totally prejudiced to denial. I cannot understand why they would make the effort,unless they are compensated by someone.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby thuja » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 02:06:49

Hey pretty good one Dr. Ofellati- I can take it I can take it-

And yes HardtoTell- I think perhaps some degree of shock and awe may be needed to "awaken people" (if that is indeed possible), but when some of us oversell our product (Kunstler, LATOC et al) the whole culture of those studying this subject gets muddied and watered down.

This subject seems to attract the conspiracy theorists, racists, survivalists and utter nutters in our world. And yes there is a great deal of good and interesting posts in here as well.

What I hope for sometimes is more coherence amongst the cacophony. I think in part that Aaron's blessed libertarianism allows this site to be extremely freewheeling- and I love him for that...but then I think in part that the anything goes approach to this site allows the loudest, most extreme and most prolific posters to rule the roost.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby vtsnowedin » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 04:48:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ')Seriously, I think in a poll conducted a while back at least half of you believed that 5 billion people would die in the next 10 years. Puh--------leaze!

...

And on what basis do you dismiss that possibility?
Is not the task of feeding nine billion people a daunting one?
Will not peak oil make it that much harder to achieve? Can we feed the worlds population on algae oil and solar power?


I don't think 5 billion people will die in the next 10 years. I think it will take until mid century before we see the major die off.

We could see a few famines in the next 10 years, however.

A couple of bad harvests and we'll be in trouble.


That's about where I am on that issue. Peak oil or not we are running out of arable land and we have netted clean the ocean fisheries. Sooner or later the world population problem has to come to a head and it won't be pretty.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Pops » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 07:46:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'I') do not want censorship. People can post what they want. But when people post utter shit, its time for the rest of us to call them on it...
OK.

But if you want to change the face of PO.com, do it by posting important to important topics YOURSELF and ignore the stuff posted just to start arguments or obfuscate or fantasize or whatever it is you don't agree with.


The more you bump the stupid thread the more it gets read.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby mos6507 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 09:31:19

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Last edited by Pops on Fri 23 Oct 2009, 09:48:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby mos6507 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 09:33:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', 'I')t can also be readily used to promote (enviro)fascist or -communist agenda's.


There are a host of agendas that it can be used to promote. The failure of BAU opens the floodgates to new paradigms. Some worse than what we already have. But everybody thinks they have "the answer".
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby mos6507 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 09:46:57

blah blah...
deleted
Last edited by Pops on Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:34:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby hardtootell-2 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:16:20

[blah blah...
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby Pops » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:36:09

So, you want to know what hacks me off? ^
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby RedStateGreen » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:39:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', 'T')here are Black Swan events and the butterfly effect impinging on complex unstable systems.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_7811593/

That's a fascinating article, I think it has relevance for the way society is reacting to oil shocks, economic shocks, etc. It's like people get riled up for a while then settle back into basically the same mindset.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

First thing to ask: Cui bono?
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby hardtootell-2 » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:42:42

geezz Pops you threw out the whole post w/o looking for any value in it. Now no one can tell what RSG found interesting
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Re: Will the Peak Oil watching community please...

Postby RedStateGreen » Fri 23 Oct 2009, 10:44:29

I fixed the link so now it works. :mrgreen:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

First thing to ask: Cui bono?
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