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Oil will be dropping quickly

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 17 Oct 2009, 21:09:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'I')ndeed. I'm a bit baffled about current prices, tbh. With such huge inventories, I feel the price should be lower.

I could easily be wrong, but I suspect that now that most people don't expect the world economy to implode short term, the markets have waken up to the fact that crude oil is a story with issues lasting more than a few months. The 4 big factors which keep me DCAing on oil stocks are:

1) The dollar.
2). India and its likely future demand increase.
3). China and its likely future demand increase.
4). Cheap cars like the Nano, and what they imply for 2 and 3 above, and in fact ALL healthy emerging markets over time. (Hint - poor families seem to CRAVE having a car, per various sources like "The Economist".)

So what is a "high" price for crude if the world economy recovers in several years in light of the above factor? North of $200, perhaps?

If oil DOES drop a lot, I'll just grin and get to buy more shares cheap. Again, I may be wrong in the end, but at least my time frame isn't that of a gnat.

edit - fixed a typo
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby Revi » Sat 17 Oct 2009, 21:35:58

I don't think that oil will drop because the heating season has begun. People have to buy oil, wood or natural gas around here to heat their homes. I think I read some place that the northern hemisphere consumes a lot of oil in the winter heating season.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby energyhoggin » Sat 17 Oct 2009, 23:38:05

if it keeps on getting higher there will be another economic downturn and so the cycle will repeat again and again...
Fact: There will be a limit to growth
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 18 Oct 2009, 00:05:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('energyhoggin', 'i')f it keeps on getting higher there will be another economic downturn and so the cycle will repeat again and again...


I'm looking forward to the next one so that we won't have the confusion of oil prices and the credit crisis happening in unison. Only when we have a recession caused by energy prices alone will it do some good.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby timmac » Sun 18 Oct 2009, 00:53:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CoachT', 'T')ake your blinders off. Demand is down and will continue to drop especially below last year.
Transportation companies are moving tremendously less volume (trucking, railroads, airlines, ships, etc).
Airlines are flying less flights. This quarter is expected to be less than 2001. (If you don't remember 2001 flights almost came to a stand still.)
Employment world wide is the lowest it has been in years and still dropping. Car usage for traveling to work, pleasure, etc has been drastically reduced. People are lowering their thermostats to save money.
Russia's only source of money is to produce more oil and other countries are starting to ignore production quotas.
You all laughed last year but I had the last laugh. Remember I called the downturn at $140.
Think about it and have a good nights sleep.
Talk to you in a few weeks.




Why did'nt CoachT come back in a few weeks and tell us why oil is not going down.??

It appears to me oil price will increase with the falling dollar, right ??
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby thuja » Sun 18 Oct 2009, 02:07:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('energyhoggin', 'i')f it keeps on getting higher there will be another economic downturn and so the cycle will repeat again and again...


I'm looking forward to the next one so that we won't have the confusion of oil prices and the credit crisis happening in unison. Only when we have a recession caused by energy prices alone will it do some good.



It could always be muddied- other factors will always be in play- such as...rapid inflation, oil being priced in other currencies besides dollars, shrinking credit, etc. It will always be possible to obfuscate the underlying lack of oil until we are experiencing genuine shortages...
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 18 Oct 2009, 02:13:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')It could always be muddied- other factors will always be in play- such as...rapid inflation, oil being priced in other currencies besides dollars, shrinking credit, etc. It will always be possible to obfuscate the underlying lack of oil until we are experiencing genuine shortages...


Or you could just blame it all on environmental extremist regulations like Newt Gingrich.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby thuja » Sun 18 Oct 2009, 17:52:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')It could always be muddied- other factors will always be in play- such as...rapid inflation, oil being priced in other currencies besides dollars, shrinking credit, etc. It will always be possible to obfuscate the underlying lack of oil until we are experiencing genuine shortages...


Or you could just blame it all on environmental extremist regulations like Newt Gingrich.


Oooh I fogot that one. That is the Granddaddy of obfuscations. And it will be the number one lie told to make believe we're not running out of oil. IN fact it could eventually be the lie that makes this country break in two.

"If only we drilled in ANWR...off the coasts, scraped the Dakotas and Colorado 5 miles down...oil would be 10 $ a barrel again."
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby Roy » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 08:34:33

Drill baby, drill!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;If only we drilled in ANWR...off the coasts, scraped the Dakotas and Colorado 5 miles down...oil would be 10 $ a barrel again."

I'd say that they've been pretty effective in spreading that meme.

I've heard that as a rebuttal in oil depletion discussions more times than I 'd care to count.

EROEI is everything. Like the exponential function, it's something a lot of people don't seem to get intellectually.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 09:21:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', 'D')rill baby, drill!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;If only we drilled in ANWR...off the coasts, scraped the Dakotas and Colorado 5 miles down...oil would be 10 $ a barrel again."

I'd say that they've been pretty effective in spreading that meme.

I've heard that as a rebuttal in oil depletion discussions more times than I 'd care to count.

EROEI is everything. Like the exponential function, it's something a lot of people don't seem to get intellectually.


EROEI is irrelevant. We asked some industry people and they have snickered at the concept. The operative concept appears to be, as long as there is money to be made, that works, and nobody cares a whit about EROEI. The industry can't even calculate EROEI until the field is dead, as demonstrated by recent examples in another thread, so they certainly can't be using it to judge whether or not any particular project even gets off the ground.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 10:47:51

EROEI is everything.

See Second Law of Thermodynamics for details.

Only exception information and Self Organized Criticality,
but I'm betting you don't believe that either. :roll:

So to recap:

We're past PO. The economy of perpetual growth is over. Ag is producing as much as it can. And a billion + are going hungry everyday. While 200 000 people (est 70 000 000 +per year) added everyday.

While the message from the top is...out of touch. No one is listening. Obama is the last with any kind of creds vanishing rapidly.

We're losing at least a million jobs a month (in the US) while the Top 1% own 95% of all assets.

Am I missing something? Oh, latest climatologists-2C rise baked in.

something's got to give. The future is here. We just don't recognize it yet.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby Revi » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 11:34:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'E')ROEI is everything.

See Second Law of Thermodynamics for details.

Only exception information and Self Organized Criticality,
but I'm betting you don't believe that either. :roll:

So to recap:

We're past PO. The economy of perpetual growth is over. Ag is producing as much as it can. And a billion + are going hungry everyday. While 200 000 people (est 70 000 000 +per year) added everyday.

While the message from the top is...out of touch. No one is listening. Obama is the last with any kind of creds vanishing rapidly.

So what's the bad news?
We're losing at least a million jobs a month (in the US) while the Top 1% own 95% of all assets.

Am I missing something? Oh, latest climatologists-2C rise baked in.

something's got to give. The future is here. We just don't recognize it yet.


Welcome to the future.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 20:18:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'E')ROEI is everything.

See Second Law of Thermodynamics for details.


Please reference a project in the oilfield, using the millions of wells, tens of thousands of fields, and a 100+ producing basins scattered throughout the world where a single one at any level was justified using any measure of EROEI whatsoever.

Just one will do.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 20:20:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Welcome to the future.


Hey Revi, you're a Maine guy. Has Simmons been able to help the US recovery by building all those windmills off the coast to power your electrical grid, or was that just him blowing smoke up everyone's butt again? He was planning on helping you guys out...I'm kind of curious if you have seen any sign of his work, in the local paper, planning commissions, drop in electrical rates, anything like that?
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 19 Oct 2009, 22:20:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Welcome to the future.


Hey Revi, you're a Maine guy. Has Simmons been able to help the US recovery by building all those windmills off the coast to power your electrical grid, or was that just him blowing smoke up everyone's butt again? He was planning on helping you guys out...I'm kind of curious if you have seen any sign of his work, in the local paper, planning commissions, drop in electrical rates, anything like that?
Once again. Wha?


Recovery. US. Simmons was going to prototype the economics of a post peak recovery by getting involved in building windmills in Maine. I was just wondering if Revi had seen any sign of this particular Simmons claim yet. Don't tell me you aren't aware of how peak oil "experts" have been planning to increase their personal fortunes and mitigate against peak at the same time? Said it on the same radio program that Hirsch was on saying, his angle being that everyone should tone down the peak oil fear mongering act. Surely there is radio available in California?
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby biofuel13 » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 12:57:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il will be dropping quickly


Oh really? Seems to have broken up over $80. Sitting at $80.47 as I type this. I think you were holding your analysis charts upside down. The USDX is continuing its downhill slide, touching a 52 week low today near 75.0 It's a pretty simple equation really. Dollar moving down equals oil moving up.
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Re: Oil will be dropping quickly

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 14:11:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Welcome to the future.


Hey Revi, you're a Maine guy. Has Simmons been able to help the US recovery by building all those windmills off the coast to power your electrical grid, or was that just him blowing smoke up everyone's butt again? He was planning on helping you guys out...I'm kind of curious if you have seen any sign of his work, in the local paper, planning commissions, drop in electrical rates, anything like that?
Once again. Wha?


Recovery. US. Simmons was going to prototype the economics of a post peak recovery by getting involved in building windmills in Maine. I was just wondering if Revi had seen any sign of this particular Simmons claim yet. Don't tell me you aren't aware of how peak oil "experts" have been planning to increase their personal fortunes and mitigate against peak at the same time? Said it on the same radio program that Hirsch was on saying, his angle being that everyone should tone down the peak oil fear mongering act. Surely there is radio available in California?

I do wonder about people investing or NOT investing when they advocate something.

If you advocate NG like T. Boone Pickens he'll be accused of promoting NG merrely to make money because he is invested in it.

If someone says "hey go solar" but they don't invest in it, then they will be accused of not putting their money where their mouth is.
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