[JJ]

these people won't do ANYTHING else until their backs are against the wall. In the last month, i have been thrown out of an area business (where I had gone to buy some silver) for talking to one of the counter-workers about the economy. I have had a chair thrown at me at work for talking about the economy (I'm a negative bastard). We had a company moral meeting a week before the company (indirectly through each departments manger) announced the first time in history massive budget and payroll cuts. Even now all the employees are pretending nothing has happened (even though some of us have been told which employees will be *re-allocated* (meaning they will have the opportunity to sack groceries for half the pay they were formerly making). No, the general public doesn't want to know anything. at all. this is going to smack some people in the face.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'I')n the last month, i have been thrown out of an area business (where I had gone to buy some silver) for talking to one of the counter-workers about the economy. I have had a chair thrown at me at work for talking about the economy (I'm a negative bastard). We had a company moral meeting a week before the company (indirectly through each departments manger) announced the first time in history massive budget and payroll cuts.

[Cloud9]

Guys, haven’t you read anything on death and dying. Denial is always the first stage.

[KevO]

well here's a prediction or two.
AFTER the Copenhagen summit in December, we may find that the whole world puts up a 50mph speed limit on all roads including Motorways.
We may find that gas guzzlers will be priced off the road either by taxes or at sourse - at production lines (if they were to ever return)
There may be a quadrupling on electricity charges on out of hours usage such as the millions of offices that leave their lights and computers on all night and every night therefore forcing (what should be a law) a black out after say 6pm in places that are f****** CLOSED!
And the UK is already talking off switching off street, sidewalk, expressway lights from midnight to 5am. This is a strong possibility everywhere.

Of course Copenhagen may fail in which case all lights may go off forever and within years

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'I')n the last month, i have been thrown out of an area business (where I had gone to buy some silver) for talking to one of the counter-workers about the economy. I have had a chair thrown at me at work for talking about the economy (I'm a negative bastard). We had a company moral meeting a week before the company (indirectly through each departments manger) announced the first time in history massive budget and payroll cuts.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'i')nd that the whole world puts up a 50mph speed limit on all roads including Motorways.
We may find that gas guzzlers will be priced off the road either by taxes or at sourse - at production lines (if they were to ever return)
There may be a quadrupling on electricity charges on out of hours usage such as the millions of offices that leave their lights and computers on all night and every night therefore forcing (what should be a law) a black out after say 6pm in places that are f****** CLOSED!

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'w')ell here's a prediction or two.
AFTER the Copenhagen summit in December, we may find that the whole world puts up a 50mph speed limit on all roads including Motorways.
We may find that gas guzzlers will be priced off the road either by taxes or at sourse - at production lines (if they were to ever return)
There may be a quadrupling on electricity charges on out of hours usage such as the millions of offices that leave their lights and computers on all night and every night therefore forcing (what should be a law) a black out after say 6pm in places that are f****** CLOSED!
And the UK is already talking off switching off street, sidewalk, expressway lights from midnight to 5am. This is a strong possibility everywhere.

Of course Copenhagen may fail in which case all lights may go off forever and within years

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', ' ')In the last month, i have been thrown out of an area business (where I had gone to buy some silver) for talking to one of the counter-workers about the economy. I have had a chair thrown at me at work for talking about the economy (I'm a negative bastard).

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', '
')Yeah ok, but I must say I'm a bit amazed by the total lack of discussion regarding possible political measures to tackle PO on this board.

Maybe it's too late indeed, however a carbon tax is really the way to go : a movement accelerator independent of any technical solution

[Arthur75]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
Now look what you've done in one fell swoop -- created a HUGE incentive for EVERYONE to use less gasoline/diesel. Since every taxpaying family gets the FLAT credit, that's a big incentive for virtually EVERY gallon burned.

On the one hand, you'd get no end of crying/whining/screaming, but on the other hand, you'd get a tremendous new move toward bicycling, small and hybrid car buying, a big push for alternative cars like CNG, EV, taking public transit, living closer to work, etc, etc. The economy would shift, but the fuel savings should be just astounding.

If you want to argue the specific amount I chose - fine, but keeping it SIMPLE and BIG would really cause a difference. We could have started this 30 years ago at a DIME a year increase, and been MUCH better off by now energy-wise, but now we need something DRAMATIC to work quickly enough, IMO.

Let the shouting begin - my armor is in place...

[Quinny]

We're already paying a lot more than that! Domestic use needs to be severely curtailed.

[Arthur75]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'W')e're already paying a lot more than that! Domestic use needs to be severely curtailed.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Good charts 75. Thanks for those.

Either my math hat is on too tight, or the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" phenomenon is hitting us. Looking at the last two gas tax charts and comparing the March 2008 and Jan 2009 figures -- for Germany, Britian, and France (I only compared these three) the numbers seem to be WAY different.

Did Europe experience some massive reduction in gasoline taxes in late 2008 to "fight the recession" by any chance?

It sure is hard to get people to agree on policy when it seems different sources produce wildly different figures (and then special interests naturally tout whatever figures best suit their position, and call the other side liars)...

edit - added "last" to clarify which two charts I was comparing.

[Arthur75]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'G')ood charts 75. Thanks for those.

Either my math hat is on too tight, or the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" phenomenon is hitting us. Looking at the last two gas tax charts and comparing the March 2008 and Jan 2009 figures -- for Germany, Britian, and France (I only compared these three) the numbers seem to be WAY different.

Did Europe experience some massive reduction in gasoline taxes in late 2008 to "fight the recession" by any chance?

It sure is hard to get people to agree on policy when it seems different sources produce wildly different figures (and then special interests naturally tout whatever figures best suit their position, and call the other side liars)...

edit - added "last" to clarify which two charts I was comparing.