[JoeW]

i just checked the specs on the Scion xA hatchback and i think it is essentially an Echo wagon.
Both have 1.5L 4-cyl engines.
The xA weighs in a couple hundred pounds heavier, and is less economical.
echo: 35mpg city/42 mpg hwy
scion: 32mpg city/37 mpg hwy

neither is bad for a car that is essentially old technology.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johnmarkos', 'C')ool. Now you should get in touch with these folks.

Then, when you have those solar panels installed on your roof, you're ready to go!
[/URL]

[DriveElectric]

I just got back from a test drive. I found some really flat roads with no traffic so that I could accelerate as slow as I want and really test out the 2005 Prius Hybrid. (completely unscientific test with only a few samples)

By doing a really gentle acceleration, I was able to get the speed up to 32 mph without the gasoline engine engaging. I was using pure battery and able the maintain 32 mph on a flat road. I was able to do this for about 3 miles. Then the battery charge meter showed it dropping by one bar which is about 12.5%.

I would estimate the acceleration was 0 to 30 mph in about 15 seconds. I had to be really gentle to avoid the gasoline engine engaging.

On the regular drive back to work (about 3 miles) the battery complete recharged from regenerative braking and gasoline engine running.

[cube]

Congratulations enjoy the novelty while it lasts. Soon we'll all drive hybrids out of necessity. I wonder what's going on behind the closed door boardroom meetings at GM and Ford right now?

[Devil]

Would you like to post the mpg you get in rush hour urban start-stop traffic, driving as you would to keep up with the traffic? I believe this is the real difference between hybrid and conventional. I have a friend in DC who gets up to 65 mpg under these conditions but it drops to ~45 mpg on his weekly trip to Baltimore, perhaps exceeding the speed limit from time to time.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', 'W')ould you like to post the mpg you get in rush hour urban start-stop traffic, driving as you would to keep up with the traffic? I believe this is the real difference between hybrid and conventional. I have a friend in DC who gets up to 65 mpg under these conditions but it drops to ~45 mpg on his weekly trip to Baltimore, perhaps exceeding the speed limit from time to time.

[DriveElectric]

When I am in parking lots or on residential neighborhood roads, that is also pure electric time. I never need the gasoline engine, except for when going uphill.

While driving, if coasting while on approach to a redlight or stop sign or any decrease in speed, the gasoline engine turns off and it uses the energy from the front wheels turning to recharge the battery. Braking is also a recharge mode. Sitting at stoplights is a new experience with no noise or engine vibration.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', ' ')I have a friend in DC who gets up to 65 mpg under these conditions but it drops to ~45 mpg on his weekly trip to Baltimore, perhaps exceeding the speed limit from time to time.

[pilferage]

Go 55 next time, there should be a much larger difference.

[thegrq]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id you consider the Echo? 42mpg on the highway and gasoline only.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thegrq', '
')Actually, I was going to suggest the VW golf diesel, which gets 38 city and 46 highway. The Echo gets 35 city and 42 highway but the Echo is $14,065 compared with the Golf which starts at $18,000 (all $Cdn).

[Triffin]

Volkswagen should license the Toyota hybrid technology (like Ford did for the Escape) and make a diesel hybrid using the most advanced TDI version of the diesel engine. That is a vehicle that would likely get about 60-70 mpg and be the same size as the Prius or Jetta.

High mpg Diesel-electric hybrids have already been done ..
Remember Clinton's 80 mpg car intiative during the late
1990's ?? Several 'concept' cars were developed by the
majors and shown ~2000 ..

Ford - "Prodigy" - +70mpg
DMC - "DodgeSX3"- +72mpg
GMC - "Precept" - +79mpg

These were all full size sedans .. do a 'google'
Now the real question .. Why aren't these vehicles
available for lease/purchase ????????

Triff ..

[thegrq]

The diesel hybrid is still a bit too expensive for the North American market. From this post:

"The diesel hybrid would cost about $8,000 more than a conventional engine (because diesel engines are typically more expensive to start with and then the battery pack would add even more) and so market share especially in North America will be difficult. Europe is expected to see the first diesel hybrids because they already have a love affair with diesel fuel."

GM has a concept car that's a diesel hybrid, called the Opel Astra, but I'm sure most car companies do, it's just a matter of who will sell one first.

[Triffin]

The diesel hybrid would cost about $8,000 more than a conventional engine (because diesel engines are typically more expensive to start with and then the battery pack would add even more) and so market share especially in North America will be difficult. Europe is expected to see the first diesel hybrids because they already have a love affair with diesel fuel."

Sorry .. that's the wrong comparision for cost analysis
It should be cost of diesel-electric hybrid vs cost
of gas-electric hybrid .. I'll grant that the diesel
version of a hybrid-electric vehicle will cost more
than the gas version ..... but not 8k more ..

It's all BS anyway ..
Where are these +70 mpg cars ??
Big oil doesn't want them on the market ..
It's got nothing to do with consumer vehicle
preferneces either .. we'll buy whatever Detroit
sells ( what other choice is there ?? ) .. So far ..
they ain't selling

Triff ..

[Devil]

As has already been pointed out in previous threads, diesel technology does not lend itself to stop-start work nearly as well as petrol (gas) engines. I suspect that they would not show any mpg improvement, except possibly in constant speed fast highway use, when the engine would be running nearly all the time, and the engines would wear faster because starting a diesel knocks hell out of it and emits more pollutants, especially when it is a little worn. Also, remember that starting a diesel needs more starter motor power because of the higher compression ratio, so that is less electricity for moving the car.

I believe Toyota and Honda have both tried the idea and shelved it, at least for the moment, as impractical.

[DriveElectric]

If the diesel hybrid is impracticle (for the logical reasons Devil pointed out) then I suspect the next generation of hybrids will be the Plug-in hybrid, which can do 20-60 miles on battery before switching to the liquid fuel.

Then the fuel powering your car every day (for 20-60 miles) is coal, nuclear, wind, hydro, etc. And if that vehicle was made to run on ethanol 85, then oil is mostly removed from the equation.

[NevadaGhosts]

My Honda Metro scoooter gets 100 mpg and goes nearly 40 mph. It cost only $1700 brand new. Cannot haul a passenger on it, but that's what my old but loved Toyota 4wd wagon is for. The 80's Toyota Tercel 4wd wagons were the best cars ever made. I cannot justify spending $20,000+ dollars on any new car when I only live 1 mile from work. I can understand people wanting to get 50+ miles per gallon with a car, but a motorcycle is much cheaper and some can get between 60 and 70 mpg, and costs only a fraction of what a new car costs. But if I had to haul several people around, I guess a hybrid or diesel car would be the way to go. New car owners will probably never make up the difference in gas savings when taking into account the high price of a new cars. I honestly don't think new cars are worth the money, unless one is fairly rich an can pay cash for it. I don't feel that it's worth going into debt for any new car for better gas mileage since I already have a used car that is already paid for. The cost of a new car that gets better gas mileage is still a financial loss compared to keeping a used car that is paid for, which gets less gas mileage. I say everyone should get at least one motorcylce or scooter.

I almost fell on the floor after reading that a transmission replacement for a Toyota Prius costs between $8,000 and $9,000. Damn...

http://priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... dd82b8a8c0

I think I'll stick with my old, but trusty Toyota wagon.

[thegrq]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')orry .. that's the wrong comparision for cost analysis
It should be cost of diesel-electric hybrid vs cost
of gas-electric hybrid ..

[Gary]

I appreciate hybrid technology. My wife drives a hybrid. she tries to minimise the car use. When the dealer called about the first check-up at 5,000 miles or so (as I recall) she had not driven the car that many miles in the first few months. The dealer rep said something like "what's the matter, don't you like your car?" My wife said "i really do like it, but I only drive when I need to." There was silence on the other end of the line, then nervous laughter. What a concept! Intentionally using one's car only at need1 Trying to cut back on car use!

I myself use an Organicengines pedicab for my handyperson service business. I pedal every day. I can carry 800 pounds on my trike. I've got a trailer for another 300 or 400 pounds of stuff if I needed it.

I get great mileage: 0 gallons per mile. The petroleum used is mostly in tires, tubes, and breaks. I can use biodeisel to clean and lube the chain.

As Congressman Roscoe Bartlett has pointed out in his recent Global Media interview, we need to transform our lifestyles and our urban/suburban transportation assumptions and infrastructure. We need for most people to walk to work or else walk to a well-used bus/rail system.

Getting from here to there is not easy. It can start with some of us intentionally designing our daily lives to do without a car. This means giving up ease, comfort, and convenience willingly and voluntarily. Another novel idea.

Of course, Bartlett also agrees that we need to "relocalise" agriculture and make it organic, too1

I guess the discussion of hybrids is great, but we need to keep hybrids in perspective: they are useful and helpful, but we cannot and will not be able to replace our auto/truck fleet with hybrids. We need to greatly reduce our use of cars and trucks, and greatly increase walking, biking, mass transit, and to re-localise and decentralise much of our agriculture and business.

I think that hybrids are an important part of the solution to peak oil and the environmental problems we face. But we must always, always be clear that they are one strategy amoung other necessary changes.

I say with good humour -- way to go with the hybrids, but my pedicab is more better!

-- Happy fuel savings, in every way possible!

[TrueKaiser]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Triffin', '[')i]Volkswagen should license the Toyota hybrid technology (like Ford did for the Escape) and make a diesel hybrid using the most advanced TDI version of the diesel engine. That is a vehicle that would likely get about 60-70 mpg and be the same size as the Prius or Jetta.

High mpg Diesel-electric hybrids have already been done ..
Remember Clinton's 80 mpg car intiative during the late
1990's ?? Several 'concept' cars were developed by the
majors and shown ~2000 ..

Ford - "Prodigy" - +70mpg
DMC - "DodgeSX3"- +72mpg
GMC - "Precept" - +79mpg

These were all full size sedans .. do a 'google'
Now the real question .. Why aren't these vehicles
available for lease/purchase ????????

Triff ..