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Re: We're not smart enough, we need AI

Postby lawnchair » Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:25:39

We cannot create a system smarter than ourselves. "Garbage In Garbage Out".

For instance, a lot of the current subprime joy has come from the fact that we took people out of the mortgage biz (who were indeed morons mostly), and substituted some pretty advanced expert systems like "Desktop Originator" and "Loan Prospector". But, those systems were gamed and based on certain expectations that did not continue.
At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
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Re: We're not smart enough, we need AI

Postby Narz » Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:35:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'W')e cannot create a system smarter than ourselves. "Garbage In Garbage Out".

Just garbage. :razz:

Was Leornado Da Vinci's father as smart as he was?

Were squirrels as smart as apes, as smart as us?

It's evolution, we're just speeding it up.

The quality of life for the average poor slob may go down but don't think technology is going to come to a stop, that's just misguided luddite wishful thinking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'F')or instance, a lot of the current subprime joy has come from the fact that we took people out of the mortgage biz (who were indeed morons mostly), and substituted some pretty advanced expert systems like "Desktop Originator" and "Loan Prospector". But, those systems were gamed and based on certain expectations that did not continue.

Who cares? Alot of people made money while the getting was good. Anyway, this shows my point, we humans aren't very good at long term planning.
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Re: We're not smart enough, we need AI

Postby Dreamtwister » Mon 24 Nov 2008, 21:09:49

AI may not be needed, but I can very easily forsee the need for wetware in the near future.

The information wee are currently teaching college students in their first year is obsolete by their third year, and the pace is increasing. We are already seeing the results of people's inability to understand the world around them. Without some sort of additional processing power, it will only be a matter of time before information overload causes a disaster.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: We're not smart enough, we need AI

Postby Revi » Mon 24 Nov 2008, 21:36:36

The human brain may be smart enough to deal with what we need to deal with. I can't see AI helping very much. We use the culture as an external brain anyway. We live the morals we are taught, have lots of information on computers, etc.

I agree with the other posters who say we have to learn to live within our limits. We need to create green culture. That might help to affect the kind of change we need. AI is just a tool. We have lots of tools. We need to learn how to use them again.
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Re: We're not smart enough, we need AI

Postby mos6507 » Mon 24 Nov 2008, 22:25:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kakkerlak', '
')The reason it's going bad with the world is because everybody is trying to find weak excuses to justify bad behaviour. Nobody is taking responsibility for themselves. Nobody is saying: "I am the problem." and that's why its going bad with the world. And that's also the solution.


So well said. I would extend it to far more than harp seal clubbing, too. Pretty much all man's inhumanity to man. Everyone has an excuse for why the ends justifies the means. It's all bullsh*t.
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Self programming logic circuits

Postby outcast » Thu 29 Jan 2009, 00:30:47

Awesome stuff

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ince 1972, scientists have known there are four basic circuit components, but if you've spent any time in an electrical engineering classroom, you probably only have experience with three: capacitor, inductor, and resistor. The fourth basic component, the memristor, had remained stuck in the domain of theory--a nice idea that even the theorists thought had few practical uses. Last year, scientists at Hewlett-Packard (HP) demonstrated the first functional solid-state memristor, made from thin films of TiO2, and discovered it had an abundance of unique and highly promising properties.

A study released Monday by The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that these same TiO2 memristors can be fabricated into functional and reprogrammable integrated circuits. Scientists at HP combined a crossbar architecture of memristors with field effect transistors (FETs) to produce a convincing proof-of-concept device that includes circuits that can dynamically reprogram themselves, acting a bit like a solid-state nerve cell-like operation--a holy grail of electrical engineering.



So apparantly all that was really needed to build a true AI system were memristors.
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Re: Self programming logic circuits

Postby jasonraymondson » Thu 29 Jan 2009, 01:00:58

Great, just lovely .. chips that can reprogram themselves.

nah, that can't end badly.
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Re: Self programming logic circuits

Postby outcast » Thu 29 Jan 2009, 01:24:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'G')reat, just lovely .. chips that can reprogram themselves.

nah, that can't end badly.



Depends on how we handle it. Maybe Kurzweill really was right about AI coming soonish.
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Re: Self programming logic circuits

Postby Carlhole » Thu 29 Jan 2009, 02:36:57

I'm surprised that that article hasn't made it onto Kurzweil's site yet.

But, here's one that has.

A.I. comes of age

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FutureWatch', 'J')anuary 26, 2009 (Computerworld) "Stair, please fetch the stapler from the lab," says the man seated at a conference room table. The Stanford Artificial Intelligence Robot, standing nearby, replies in a nasal monotone, "I will get the stapler for you."

Stair pivots and wheels into the adjacent lab, avoiding a number of obstacles on the way. Its stereoscopic camera eyes swivel back and forth, taking in the contents of the room. It seems to think for a moment, then approaches a table for a closer look at an oblong metallic object. Its articulated arm reaches out, swivels here and there, and then gently picks up the stapler with long, rubber-clad fingers. It heads back to the conference room.

"Here is your stapler," says Stair, handing it to the man. "Have a nice day."

These are indeed nice days for artificial intelligence researchers...
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Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby Carlhole » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 10:10:21

Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NYT', 'A') robot that can open doors and find electrical outlets to recharge itself. Computer viruses that no one can stop. Predator drones, which, though still controlled remotely by humans, come close to a machine that can kill autonomously.

Impressed and alarmed by advances in artificial intelligence, a group of computer scientists is debating whether there should be limits on research that might lead to loss of human control over computer-based systems that carry a growing share of society’s workload, from waging war to chatting with customers on the phone.

Their concern is that further advances could create profound social disruptions and even have dangerous consequences.

As examples, the scientists pointed to a number of technologies as diverse as experimental medical systems that interact with patients to simulate empathy, and computer worms and viruses that defy extermination and could thus be said to have reached a “cockroach” stage of machine intelligence.

While the computer scientists agreed that we are a long way from Hal, the computer that took over the spaceship in “2001: A Space Odyssey,” they said there was legitimate concern that technological progress would transform the work force by destroying a widening range of jobs, as well as force humans to learn to live with machines that increasingly copy human behaviors.


You wouldn't have to have generally intelligent or conscious computers to surpass the abilities of most people. I wouldn't want to bet against the research going on into neural networks and adapting features of the brain's design to chips. You'd get much better visual, auditory, and decision-making ability.

What happens to society when the first lawyer is replaced by a firmware system built from studying rat brain architecture?

Oops, you say, civilization will come crashing down before then? Well, you must have some idea about how far the current bio/computer/nano boom will go before it peaks. Put yourself on record now.

Even with no energy crisis, billions of people most likely would become redundant and undesirable - and dangerous. Maybe we have more in common with cockroaches than we'd like to think.
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby outcast » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 10:30:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou wouldn't have to have generally intelligent or conscious computers to surpass the abilities of most people



Maybe, but then again in the face of obsolesence we could upgrade ourselves......
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby hardtootell-2 » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 11:12:56

warm and fuzzys
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby Dreamtwister » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 12:40:53

Computers are only now approaching insect-level intelligence, and they are already capable of a frightening level of autonomous capability. John Robb talks about this all the time.

We're just fortunate that such applications are either still in development, or highly restricted. Once that power (and the understanding of how to exercise that power effectively) disseminates, we're screwed. They don't need smarter-than-human intelligence. The power is there right now.
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby Dreamtwister » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 13:53:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'O')bserve a fly for a minute. If you can. And then show me a machine that can do the same. Find it's own food. Mate. Procreate.

Fly up and land on a ceiling. Upside down.


Micromechanical Flying Insect

I don't know if it can land inverted or not, but it's autonomous. It's capabilities are limited by it's form factor (for now), but larger bots would obviously have greater capabilities.

I like this one:

Photopopper

It's a solar powered robot with photo diodes for stereoscopic vision and antennae. It will seek out and move toward a light source, navigating around physical barriers to get there. It should be noted that you can build these out of junk.

Self-replication in "realspace" is the really tough one, but we're getting there as well.

RepRap

This is a table-top 3d printer that is capable of creating replacement parts for itself (as well a a few other simple objects). Granted, the technology is in it's infancy, but it does exist.

Try not to think of it like flies. Instead, think of these machines like a colony of bees, each with it's own specific roles within the colony.
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby Dreamtwister » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 14:29:37

1 and 3 work fine for me. The second link is at Geocities and seems to be having problems at the moment, try again in an hour or so.
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby Carlhole » Mon 27 Jul 2009, 16:20:07

At Secret Conference, Scientists Consider the Possible Rise of Autonomous Killer Robots

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he regular use of unmanned Predator drones to do our bombing and robots developed to increasingly resemble human traits might have some dangerous implications if left unchecked. With the rush of advancements in artificial intelligence, scientists worry that we may be approaching, faster than we realize, the point at which robots begin to operate without human direction. And while robots have accidentally killed humans before, if one of our weaponized robots were to become autonomous, the results could be disastrous.
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Re: Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man

Postby timmac » Fri 31 Jul 2009, 02:27:33

Scientists Worry Machines May Outsmart Man



This statement is already true, I have ran into a few folks that were not smarter than a tin can let alone a machine.

There is also a few on this site as well, but I will refrain from stating there names..
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Singularity Summit 2009: "Open The Pod Bay Door, HAL"

Postby Carlhole » Sat 03 Oct 2009, 13:04:27

Popsci

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ay Kurzweil's concept of the Singularity rests on two axioms: that computers will become more intelligent than humans, and that humans and computers will merge, allowing us access to that increased thinking power. So it only makes sense to begin the conference with discussions of those two fundamental concepts. No one disputed the emergence of intelligence beyond our own, but they did give me plenty of reasons to worry about how that process might take place.

According to Anna Salamon, a former NASA researcher who now works for the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence that hosts the conference, artificial intelligence greater than our own is inevitable and dangerous. Salamon argued that biological brains have finite intellectual capacity. Just as a goldfish can't appreciate opera and a cat can't learn quantum mechanics, so too will humans soon confront problems beyond the comprehension of our slimy, mortal brains.


Brains are sexy, huh.

(wait a sec... the brain said that, didn't it?)
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Re: Singularity Summit 2009: "Open The Pod Bay Door, HAL"

Postby SeaGypsy » Sat 03 Oct 2009, 13:15:24

Gregory Stock published 'Metaman' in 1993. Effectively a thesis; he predicted that the crucial point in artificial intelligence would come as a race between the humans (now reduced to controlling only the power switch) and the megabrain computer 'who' has realized the greatest threat to it's survival and control is the human holding the power switch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaman
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Re: Singularity Summit 2009: "Open The Pod Bay Door, HAL"

Postby Arthur75 » Sat 03 Oct 2009, 13:20:00

More Sci Fi junk posing as science ...

Disgusting

Nothing but a reflection of US peasant religiousness
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