[Ayoob]

The problem is the baby boomers won't have any money to pay hospital bills with their shrinking investment portfolios and crushed real estate prices. They'll be broke! Broke as I am, but with 30 years invested in something that's going away.

Option B is to make it a cash system that will be very cruel to these newly poor people. There are going to be a LOT of poor in the US, maybe even some who weren't traditionally poor. The entire former middle class. They're going to lose everything.

Maybe we can do it with dignity with a socialized medical system. I frankly would like to have lots of subpar nursing homes available for those who would otherwise be on the street. They're tough places now, but they'll be a lot tougher soon.

Maybe it's OK to provide the poor with a little something.

[Cloud9]

What you want is pretty much what every caring person wants. What we are getting is something else.

[hillsidedigger]

Yeh, the whole discussion of health insurance is a distraction and a smokescreen. Health insurance should not even exist.

[lowem]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', 'Y')eh, the whole discussion of health insurance is a distraction and a smokescreen. Health insurance should not even exist.

[Jotapay]

I am for a form of socialized medicine. We have that already, as my property taxes pay for the uninsured at the public hospital and those on public assistance. I'd rather incorporate the unincorporated, which will be better than what we have now. Forcing everyone into the system should be required somehow. Or else deny care to those who can't pay, one or the other. The current situation where we allow those who can't pay to receive health care which is paid by my property taxes (among others) is unacceptable to me. Socialize it all the way or not at all; the current system is broken.

[vision-master]

Why not jack up the gas tax to pay for everyones medical insurance?

[Aaron]

This has been on my mind heavily since my recent surgery for obvious reasons... & I agree that the current system is broken.

The way it stands now, I paid many thousands of dollars over decades for health insurance I rarely used, to insurers who collected these fees and paid out very little for my family's health care.

Because of pre-existing exclusions, I now owe in excess of 1/2 million dollars for recent treatments.

I could view this one of two ways I suppose... I'm in debt for life and need insurance without pre-existing exclusions going forward... or, since I'll never pay off my current debt, I might as well just keep acquiring new debt for future treatments without insurance coverage.

This assumes I can make it past the 1 year exclusion threshold and avoid the pre-existing exclusion... till then I'm just building new debt I can't possibly service.

It's a fine mess we have gotten ourselves into to be sure.

The illusion of perpetual growth has pulled the wool over our collective eyes, and blinded us from the simple reality of entropy.

The center cannot hold... things fall apart.

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'T')he center cannot hold... things fall apart.

[Quinny]

I really don't understand why people have so many problems with socialised services when they are obviously better in certain sectors.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') really don't understand why people have so many problems with socialised services when they are obviously better in certain sectors.

[Prince]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') really don't understand why people have so many problems with socialised services when they are obviously better in certain sectors.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'T')he center cannot hold... things fall apart.

[Quinny]

So - Auto Industry, Airline Industry, Banking Industry, Textile Industry, Insurance Industry, Steel, Pharms, Farms, Building, ...... All down to governement ineptitude??

[davep]

My mother recently thought she was suffering badly from swine flu.

After 10 days of this, I told her there must be something else going on, perhaps pneumonia.

Anyway, she went to the Doctor and got taken straight away in an ambulance to hospital, where the performed an angiogram (sp?).

It turns out that she had had a heart attack and had a blockage in her coronary artery (the one providing blood to heart muscle).

As luck would have it, she had an abnormality whereby instead of having just one coronary artery that branches into two, she had two arteries, and the second had sent out capillaries to the heart (she had been exercising up to six weeks prior to the heart attack which meant that during the growth of the blockage, the other artery compensated).

She then got told that they would perform keyhole surgery through an arm but that the chance of success was less than 50% due to the fact she had two separate arteries.

So the surgeon inserted these tubes through both arms and spent 2 and a half hours trying to 'squash' the blockage with a wotsit. She was under local anaesthetic only.

After fifteen minutes she went into cardiac arrest because they were putting dye through both arms to see whether the capillaries were doing enough to replace the function of the blocked artery, which stopped the heart. She was brought back by a defibrillator and oxygen.

The surgeon was pale and gaunt when he came to see her after the surgery, due to the intense concentration.

Now, three days after the successful surgery, she can breathe properly and the prognosis is excellent.

And she doesn't owe a penny. It was all done very quickly on the NHS in the UK.

[Prince]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'S')o - Auto Industry, Airline Industry, Banking Industry, Textile Industry, Insurance Industry, Steel, Pharms, Farms, Building, ...... All down to governement ineptitude??

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'S')o - Auto Industry, Airline Industry, Banking Industry, Textile Industry, Insurance Industry, Steel, Pharms, Farms, Building, ...... All down to governement ineptitude??

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'M')y mother recently thought she was suffering badly from swine flu.

After 10 days of this, I told her there must be something else going on, perhaps pneumonia.

Anyway, she went to the Doctor and got taken straight away in an ambulance to hospital, where the performed an angiogram (sp?).

It turns out that she had had a heart attack and had a blockage in her coronary artery (the one providing blood to heart muscle).

As luck would have it, she had an abnormality whereby instead of having just one coronary artery that branches into two, she had two arteries, and the second had sent out capillaries to the heart (she had been exercising up to six weeks prior to the heart attack which meant that during the growth of the blockage, the other artery compensated).

She then got told that they would perform keyhole surgery through an arm but that the chance of success was less than 50% due to the fact she had two separate arteries.

So the surgeon inserted these tubes through both arms and spent 2 and a half hours trying to 'squash' the blockage with a wotsit. She was under local anaesthetic only.

After fifteen minutes she went into cardiac arrest because they were putting dye through both arms to see whether the capillaries were doing enough to replace the function of the blocked artery, which stopped the heart. She was brought back by a defibrillator and oxygen.

The surgeon was pale and gaunt when he came to see her after the surgery, due to the intense concentration.

Now, three days after the successful surgery, she can breathe properly and the prognosis is excellent.

And she doesn't owe a penny. It was all done very quickly on the NHS in the UK.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')hmmmm.... the UK huh?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')hmmmm.... the UK huh?

[Quinny]

Thing is it actually costs less and delivers more than the US system as well. Best wishes to Aaaron and Davep's mum as well.