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THE Healthcare Industry Thread (merged)

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 10:06:58

What do you think of uninsured drivers? $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') was curious how much a healthcare plan would cost me and my wife. I have not had med insurance since the late 1980's since I can't afford it.

Did you ever check into State programs for those with a limited income? Having no med insurance is just being irresponsible for many. My State insurance program
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby dunewalker » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 11:30:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hat do you think of uninsured drivers?


One difference between car insurance and health insurance is that with one you have a choice not to participate--if you don't own a car, you don't need auto insurance. With the other, you have to pay to be a citizen, no matter what your beliefs, opinions, methods are on personal health. In my opinion that is just plain wrong.
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 11:50:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hat do you think of uninsured drivers?
One difference between car insurance and health insurance is that with one you have a choice not to participate--if you don't own a car, you don't need auto insurance. With the other, you have to pay to be a citizen, no matter what your beliefs, opinions, methods are on personal health. In my opinion that is just plain wrong.

But you still need an ID! :lol: So the tax payers pick up the tab when ya gotta go to the ER, eh?
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby allenwrench » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 12:37:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'O')ne difference between car insurance and health insurance is that with one you have a choice not to participate--if you don't own a car, you don't need auto insurance. With the other, you have to pay to be a citizen, no matter what your beliefs, opinions, methods are on personal health. In my opinion that is just plain wrong.
But you still need an ID! So the tax payers pick up the tab when ya gotta go to the ER, eh?
Not really. ER fees are generally small. But besides that, through taxes I pay for socialized education for kids but I do not have grade school kids.

If taxpayers were paying the uninsured hospital bills, then no one would loose their house over med bills for hospital stays.

And as insurance trends keep going the way of the turbo capitalist ER visits will most likely be paid out of pocket as deductibles keep rising.
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby Ferretlover » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 14:26:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')orced healthcare...how will it all come down?
Increased deaths, lawsuits, home remedies, less need for specialty doctors, probably less research (not that really seems to be all that efficient & why develop meds or treatments if no-one cane afford them?); people with dangerous jobs should see pay increases but no additional health benefits--until there is a severe shortage of people willing to do those jobs.
Those who attempt to pay for coverage will, most likely, be giving up a lot of things they had previously, such as more than one car in the family, new school clothes in Aug (poor retailers), less gift shopping for christmas, getting rid of cable and internet services, unmowed lawns (good reason to change to a veggie garden), etc.
So, no, I don't think that there is going to be any real (read, "Helpful to consumers," here) change in health care. Whatever happens is to bail out the HMO/insurance industry, and to change the way Americans receive healthcare, and what kind they get.
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 14:30:43

Will it help those 47,000,000 Americans without insurance?
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby Ferretlover » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 14:36:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')ill it help those 47,000,000 Americans without insurance?

IMO, it's only going to help empty their wallets faster. (Just wondering: how many of those 47M are illegal aliens?)
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 15:52:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')ill it help those 47,000,000 Americans without insurance?
IMO, it's only going to help empty their wallets faster. (Just wondering: how many of those 47M are illegal aliens?)

You fell right into my trap. :lol: Notice how I said Americans.

Illegal aliens ain't Americans.

FL is a Repub. :)
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 15:56:29

The timing is interesting isn't it.

Problem: Car companies are going bankrupt.
Solution: Let's destroy a bunch of used cars so people will be forced to buy new ones.

Problem: Insurance companies are going bankrupt.
Solution: Let's pass laws requiring everyone to buy more insurance.

Anyone one want to bet on how long it takes before those health insurance premiums are getting rolled up into derivatives and sold around Wall Street?
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Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 16:04:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roblem: Insurance companies are going bankrupt.
Solution: Let's pass laws requiring everyone to buy more insurance.


Help me with this? :)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he case of HealthPartners, based in Bloomington, Minn., disproves the argument that co-ops cannot achieve operational efficiencies of for-profit providers. Beginning in the late 1990s, the Commonwealth Fund reports, HealthPartners introduced a program that compensated doctors mainly based on productivity. Over four years ended in 2002, the co-op saw the doctors' productivity jump 38 percent and costs drop 20 percent.

In 2007 alone, HealthPartners paid out $27 million in incentives to caregivers who met certain productivity and patient satisfaction goals. While that may sound like a big cost, it's actually a measure of success at improving productivity while keeping patients happy.

Co-ops are not the only answer to the nation's health-care problems. Perhaps, in fact, there is no single answer. The "government option" -- government-backed insurance -- may be one good tool to bring health care to nearly 50 million uninsured Americans.
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby allenwrench » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 16:26:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he timing is interesting isn't it.

Problem: Car companies are going bankrupt.
Solution: Let's destroy a bunch of used cars so people will be forced to buy new ones.

Problem: Insurance companies are going bankrupt.
Solution: Let's pass laws requiring everyone to buy more insurance.

Anyone one want to bet on how long it takes before those health insurance premiums are getting rolled up into derivatives and sold around Wall Street?



Don't know, I think med insurance companies are doing fine.

But, here is something to consider...

"Kaiser forecast that the yearly family premium for health insurance could reach $30,803.00 in ten years if the 8.7% annual increase of the previous 10 years were to continue."

http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/091509_altman.cfm

Will the fines related to the governments 'Imperative Mandate' increase as well on a pro-rata basis with the rise of premiums? If so, they would grow to a fine of $8,750 per year for those that can't afford a $30,803 a year premium.

And lets go out a further 10 years. Now, the average premium is $70,939.00 per year at an 8.7% annual increase.

Some of you say that is ridiculous? Well, why so? If it has happened on a continual and regular year in - year out basis for decades...what will stop it?
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby Ferretlover » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 17:37:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')llegal aliens ain't Americans. FL is a Repub. :)

:lol: You go ask, oh, say, a dozen or so of those aliens if they are Americans...
Republican? Bite your tongue, you little whippersnapper! There is only one Republican who I think is worthy of political office, and that is Colin Powell. The rest of them.... worthless, and downright dangerous for the future existence of the US.
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby vision-master » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 18:33:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')llegal aliens ain't Americans. FL is a Repub. :)

:lol: You go ask, oh, say, a dozen or so of those aliens if they are Americans...
Republican? Bite your tongue, you little whippersnapper! There is only one Republican who I think is worthy of political office, and that is Colin Powell. The rest of them.... worthless, and downright dangerous for the future existence of the US.


Didn't he deflect? :oops:
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 24 Sep 2009, 19:09:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', 'S')ome of you say that is ridiculous? Well, why so?


Like all exponential growth curves this one is bound for an abrupt and unpleasant end. We're already spending 8% or so of our GDP on healthcare. We obviously can't spend 125% of our GDP on healthcare because we'll all starve.
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Sifting through the ashes every day
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Now is nothing more than a memory
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Re: Forced healthcare...how will it all come down?

Postby dukey » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 12:50:02

they'll probably just kill off all the old people
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The Greatest Healthcare Reform the USA could implement

Postby DomusAlbion » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 13:17:43

Reclassify tobacco as the addictive substance that it is and shut down all domestic production of this deadly drug.

All current addicts would be given free treatment to overcome their addiction and a grace period within which to do so. After that it's penalties for repeat offenders.

This act alone would save 500,000 lives per year and reduce the medical costs by billions of dollars.
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Re: The Greatest Healthcare Reform the USA could implement

Postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 13:25:54

It's certainly worked well for marijuana. Why not try tobacco too. :roll:

If nothing else, it would be a huge boon for the prison construction industry.
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Re: The Greatest Healthcare Reform the USA could implement

Postby DomusAlbion » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 13:35:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')f nothing else, it would be a huge boon for the prison construction industry.



Ha ha! Yes put offenders in work camps for six months; working out of doors in the fresh air with no self-induced pollutants in their lungs. The addiction would be broken and they would be healthier and more physically fit. Also when/if driven underground the price of a pack of Canadian cigs would be like $30. This alone would serve as a deterrent.
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Re: The Greatest Healthcare Reform the USA could implement

Postby Nefarious » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 13:44:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'R')eclassify tobacco as the addictive substance that it is and shut down all domestic production of this deadly drug.


You really do desire anarcy don't you
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
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Re: The Greatest Healthcare Reform the USA could implement

Postby DomusAlbion » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 13:55:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nefarious', '
') You really do desire anarcy (sic) don't you



Are you among the addicted, citizen? Be not troubled in your heart; the Obama Healthcare and Lifestyle Ministry will help you overcome that monkey on your back. (or else :twisted: )
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
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