[GHung]

My quick calculations tell me that you would need more surface area than what is between the rails. With a max output of @ 1000 watts per sq. meter and @ 2 meters between rails that would max out at 2kw per meter (in a perfect world) or around 2000 kw per km. I also agree that the environment would be too hostile. It takes many megawatts to move a decent size train. Why not put the PV panels beside the rails and use the whole system as part of the grid distribution system. Trains could also use regenerative breaking to feed the grid (been done for years in parts of the world). How to store the energy for cloudy days or nighttime? I have long felt that our transportation and electrical sytems should be a series of large "cellular hybrid systems". I also feel that we could use much of the interstate system rights-of-way (in the US) as a conduit for high speed rail and additional grid transmission systems, as well as "real estate" for PV or wind generation. The people already own the land. Of course, if the peak oil people are right (my gut and intellect tell me they are) its likely a moot point.
Yours on solar power 10 years and counting,
G

[Newfie]

From Wiki-

The standard gauge (also named the Stephenson gauge after George Stephenson, or Normal gauge) is a widely-used rail gauge. Approximately 60% of the world's existing railway lines are built to this gauge (see the list of countries that use the standard gauge). The distance between the inside edges of the rails of standard gauge track is 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in).

That makes your figures a bit optimistic.

You could probably take an interstate, lay PV on the East or South bound lane, shoulders and media, and build a two track rail system on the remaining lane.

More practical would be to lay PV on one lane, and all shoulders, and plant food in the medians, use the remaining highway for WALKING, BICYCLING, and CARTS. Then you would not have to transport so much in the first place.

[lowem]

Over here in Singapore, there is one big problem with this approach, even if we temporarily set aside the survivability issue : much of our MRT (aka metro/subway) track is underground, you know, where the sun don't shine.

If it is to be solar, it might be better to site that in a desert area or some similar place where you have a large area with lots of sun. Space-based solar power is another approach, though a little pie-in-the-sky for now.

The electricity itself ought to be application-agnostic, after all that's what the grid is for.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'O')ver here in Singapore, there is one big problem with this approach, even if we temporarily set aside the survivability issue : much of our MRT (aka metro/subway) track is underground, you know, where the sun don't shine.

If it is to be solar, it might be better to site that in a desert area or some similar place where you have a large area with lots of sun. Space-based solar power is another approach, though a little pie-in-the-sky for now.

The electricity itself ought to be application-agnostic, after all that's what the grid is for.

[dorlomin]

The land beside the railways is often little used.

This would also be alot more sensible with some of the light rail systems that exist.

[Revi]

I am a big fan of solar, but I think we need more regular rail. If we could just get back to the way it was 50 years ago we'd be doing amazing things. There is only one track in and out of Maine. That means the Amtrak downeaster has to pull off onto a siding whenever another train goes by. There was another track, and you can see where the tracks ran, but they were ripped up long ago.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'S')olar power, like wind power helps, but is NOT a replacement for base load power stations.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'T')he first PV cell was made in the 1800s, and the modern PV cell debuted in the 1940s, so I don't think there's anything particularly complex about manufacturing them.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')here is something complex about manufacturing good ones.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'B')ing Bong

"We apologise for the indefinite delay to the Virgin high speed pendolino service to London Euston, this is due to the sun not shining today. Please try again tomorrow"

Better than "Leaves on the line" or "wrong kind of snow" !!!

And this highlights (!!!!!) the major problem with solar - it's sunshine dependant, AND it does not deliver high power levels per sq m. (you need many, many sq m for a decent power level. A typical electric loco uses 3000 kW (4020 HP). Thats a lot of panels.

Solar power, like wind power helps, but is NOT a replacement for base load power stations.

Question - Solar panels, what is the planets resource regarding the possible future manufacture of VAST AMMOUNTS of panels ?. (i.e are they simple to make, with common, abundant material ?)

Gasmon

[Newfie]

Tanda,

You kinda seemed to point in that direction by looking to rail lines as a place to put the cells.

It would make a lot more sense to place the cells where they would be the most effect i.e., in the SW - Arizona/Nevada and the like.

A couple of years ago, maybe last year, Scientific did a cover piece on the solar solution. Their plans was to:

Create a LARGE solar collector farm in the SW
Convert the power to High Voltage DC (HVDC)
Transmit the power to the North East via HVDC power transmission lines
Convert the power back down to commercial AC
Use the excess daylight power to pump high pressure air into natural gas seams
At night extract the compressed air, mixed with NG to run turbines to produce more electricity

IIRC they guessed it would cost about 300 Billion to get to 50% of our need by 2050.

We could have done that with the stimulus package but we didn't. Blew the Bama Bucks!

There is no advantage to placing the panels along the ROW and many disadvantages.

One of the things that is most disheartening to me is that we have the technology to progress on this kind of solution but we are simply fiddling away our time arguing. We don't have to have the "best" solution, we merely need an "adequate" solution. We are developing neither.

P.S. Cyd is an optimist.

[eastbay]

I was thinking of the security force needed to keep people and animals off the track area. It would probably be quite large. Plus, around here it's rainy 6 months which would impede power generation.

[yesplease]

Don't trains do a pretty good job at keeping people and animals off the track?

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'D')on't trains do a pretty good job at keeping people and animals off the track?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'D')on't trains do a pretty good job at keeping people and animals off the track?

[yesplease]

Well, if they don't get off the track, I doubt we'll need to worry about them stealing panels. Besides, I've seen solar panels on call boxes/etc for a long time, and people don't seem to keen to steal those. It's hard unloading solar panels, so unless someone's going to use them for their own off-grid place it doesn't seem worth it. And in that case, I've seen the cells alone on eh4y for ~$1/W, so stealing might not be worth the risk.

[Newfie]

Look, I let us not get into a protracted argument of nothing. We each have our opinion and bias.

My opinion is that, in general, electrified territory is not conducive to solar panels. Better places.

But........if you want to do it then fine. I wish you all the luck and hope that I am wrong.

Just don't ask me to invest.

[Tanada]

Something I learned from reading the book Thin Ice again over Labor Day weekend is that solar panels deployed at high altitude, like the Tibetan and Alto Plano plateau's produce much more output. This is due to less air interference and less cloud cover, plus the fact that neither plateau is greatly distant from the equator.

This got me to wondering, would the same thing apply if you put SPV in cities like Denver instead of Washington D.C and Los Angeles?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'L')ook, I let us not get into a protracted argument of nothing. We each have our opinion and bias.