[Fishman]

Poor simpleminded Repent, take a basic economics course. The simple reason is there are lots of folks who can do the simple work, therefore smaller wages. There are VERY few who can shuck that brain tumor out of your head, therefor they get paid more. Pay them the same, see how many spend 8 - 10 years of post graduate education and expect to get the same pay. I assume you went through Obama's version of public education.

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'S')o your saying that blue collar workers who face danger in the face every day. People exposed daily to toxic fumes, industrial accidents, falls, ect deserve to be paid less than some doctor that sits in a comfortable office. Who gets 3 martini lunches every day and gets to go home to a nice bath in his in-bedroom jacuzzi?

Actually the problem isn't with doctors, lawyers, and other white collar workers at all. The problem is with all the rich people that don't have to work. People who day trade stocks, sit a home living off of annuities, people who fraudlently sue others for money, and other parasites of society.

The tax structure could be restructured based on how many hours a person works to receive their paycheque. A truck driver, living in his truck away from home, working 70+ hours a week would pay less than someone, working in an office at a 40 hour a week job. That person working the 40 hour a week would then pay less taxes than the person sitting at home with the same income who does no work for society.

[Arthur75]

Interesting interview

The Stonewalling of peak oil :

http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1751

[Tyler_JC]

The conversation is getting offtrack thanks to the Marxist distraction.

As for a cap and trade proposal, it makes far more sense to tax energy at the source.

Every economist supports a cap and tax. Every politician supports a cap and trade.

Why?

Because a cap and trade allows governments to hand out special favors to one group or another. Farmers in Iowa get a credit, fishermen in Maine get a credit, steelworkers in Pennsylvania get a subsidy and suburbanites in California get screwed. It hardly seems fair to me to allow governments to politicize carbon credits.

The most important part of any plan is to attack emissions at the source. I cannot possibly keep track of how much carbon dioxide I release in a given day.

However, Exxon can probably make a fairly decent estimate of how many barrels of oil they pull out of the ground every day.

A $20/barrel tax on oil would be much easier to keep track of then a 4 ton/person limit on personal CO2 emissions.

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'S')o someone who lives in Winnipeg get's the same limit as someone who lives in Florida?

You go live there through 5 months of -30C and then get told your heat is being switched off cause you are over your carbon limit and you can't travel to anywhere warmer cause again, you are over your carbon limit.

Canada is cold. Canada is big. Canadian cities are spread out.
What are we supposed to do, shut the country down cause we are over our carbon limit?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', '
')
One days pay, for one day's work is a long way comming however..

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'S')o someone who lives in Winnipeg get's the same limit as someone who lives in Florida?

You go live there through 5 months of -30C and then get told your heat is being switched off cause you are over your carbon limit and you can't travel to anywhere warmer cause again, you are over your carbon limit.

Canada is cold. Canada is big. Canadian cities are spread out.
What are we supposed to do, shut the country down cause we are over our carbon limit?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'Y')ou are obviously not a professional person.
Are you that jealous of people who are?
So you think 4 + years of University and further interning should not be rewarded?
High School drop out labourers should get the same rewards?
.

[Maddog78]

If the doctor tells you to set your own broken limb, maybe you'll be willing to give him an extra carrot?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'S')o someone who lives in Winnipeg get's the same limit as someone who lives in Florida?

You go live there through 5 months of -30C and then get told your heat is being switched off cause you are over your carbon limit and you can't travel to anywhere warmer cause again, you are over your carbon limit.

Canada is cold. Canada is big. Canadian cities are spread out.
What are we supposed to do, shut the country down cause we are over our carbon limit?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'I')f the doctor tells you to set your own broken limb, maybe you'll be willing to give him an extra carrot?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'S')o someone who lives in Winnipeg get's the same limit as someone who lives in Florida?

You go live there through 5 months of -30C and then get told your heat is being switched off cause you are over your carbon limit and you can't travel to anywhere warmer cause again, you are over your carbon limit.

Canada is cold. Canada is big. Canadian cities are spread out.
What are we supposed to do, shut the country down cause we are over our carbon limit?

[Stonemason]

Thanks for the neat little calculator, my CO2 footprint is 1.08 tonnes per year.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'C')arbon footprint my arse.

THE CLIMATE IS NOT CHANGING DUE TO HUMAN PRODUCED CO2, HOWEVER, OIL (AND GAS) ARE RUNNING OUT, BLOODY QUICK.

The bastards just want our money, all of it, so they invent Climate change, carbon footprints, trading, tax etc. As oil production drops, so will their income, so they invent "new" income streams, and we are all made to feel guilty re carbon. We suffer, They get richer.

GASMON

[Arthur75]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')
Quite true - But as peak oil progresses, many of their "revenue streams" dry up also - hence new ones needed, and quickly. The "brainwashing / wallet emptying" has begun.

Gasmon

[Arthur75]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')
If the points highlighted above were true, we MAY have a chance. However the pigmen will increasingly want "their" share, and a big % that wil be.

We (the west) are broke. Taxed to the hilt. We (the working man) CANNOT afford any more. Simple as that. God knows the eventual outcome. Tax paid out on CO2, returned monthly - a beaurocratic nightmare.

The ONLY winners will be, as usual, the Elite.

Gasmon

[argyle]

I've always believed we need a new 'green' labelling system, and tax it accordingly..

It should take into account the entire "life-cycle" the product will go through and the impact it has on the environment. A sort of points system which by action of the producer, consumer, .. can go up and down.. Such system could be used for example across the EU.

The label would need to take into account how much energy, resources (water, land, ..) are used to produce a certain product.
More energy, resources, you get a lower rate of the label (when the producer uses renewable energy, treats his sewage,recycles the by-products) he gets a higher score for the label. If the product or it's packing is bio-degradable, reusable or re-cycleable then you get a higher score.. If the product needs to be shipped, transported long distances,.. you get a lower score.. In the end you get a "green-label" which determines the rate of the 'green' tax/duties that has to be paid on it.

Producers outside of the EU (this example) would need to prove their product "label" and will be labeled when the goods are imported.

This should make producers more aware of their production process and should make them more keen to invest in better materials (bio-degradable), packaging, production-processes, shipping), as in the end it will make their products cheaper as the competitor.

As a benefit, it will bring back some manufacturing jobs since the lower labour cost of producing it in some poor country will not offset the taxes the product accumulates on shipping, green energy,.. for example.

It should make consumers more aware of seasonal locally produce, as shipped in strawberries in winter will be more expensive.

Such a scheme doesn't have to be introduced for every product at once, but could be done gradually (targetting the products with the biggest ecological gains first).