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Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 27 Aug 2009, 15:53:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I')f you actually read the article, the scientist is saying that any species genome can be "peeled back", as it were, to reveal earlier genomic stages in that species evolution.

Many of these genes which are still in bird genome are already made useless by number of random mutations during last 65 millions of years during which they were only a part of "junk DNA".
So even if brought back to work, they will not do the same, what original not damaged genes in dinosaur ancestors were doing.
Actually they will usually not do anything useful.
Very much like human gene set allowing synthesis of Vitamin C.
Researchers will not know either, how working copy might look like (in case of gene set related to synthesis of Vitamin C we know how it looks because other primates have working copies, so we know which sections got mutated).

So to restore these genes to working order scientists would need to kow an actual nucleotide sequence of properly working original and this information is often lost for good.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ince birds were (most probably) an offshoot of a larger group (dinosaurs), some genomic attributes of all dinosaurs can be discovered by peeling back the genomes of birds.

So what is this "peeling back"?
Searching for dormant genes switched off 60 millions years ago?
If so, they are now mutated enough, not to carry much retrievable information.
If gene is dormant (not used) evolution doesn't need to keep it in intact, original form.
After millions of years it will accumulate enough mutations to become useless and you will have no way to find out which particular sections gone mutated.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby dinopello » Thu 27 Aug 2009, 15:59:38

Also, in today's Washington Post - Scientists make monkeys with two mothers (both monkey-mothers though - for now :twisted: )

I'm an engineer and I can say with some confidence that engineering genetic material is going to create some 'oopsies'
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby Carlhole » Thu 27 Aug 2009, 17:46:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I')f you actually read the article, the scientist is saying that any species genome can be "peeled back", as it were, to reveal earlier genomic stages in that species evolution.

Many of these genes which are still in bird genome are already made useless by number of random mutations during last 65 millions of years during which they were only a part of "junk DNA".


OK, I get it. Last time you were wrong, you were claiming to know all about Neuroscience.

Now you're an expert on evolutionary genetic development.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby Tanada » Thu 27 Aug 2009, 19:56:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')Many of these genes which are still in bird genome are already made useless by number of random mutations during last 65 millions of years during which they were only a part of "junk DNA".
So even if brought back to work, they will not do the same, what original not damaged genes in dinosaur ancestors were doing.
Actually they will usually not do anything useful.
Very much like human gene set allowing synthesis of Vitamin C.
Researchers will not know either, how working copy might look like (in case of gene set related to synthesis of Vitamin C we know how it looks because other primates have working copies, so we know which sections got mutated).

So to restore these genes to working order scientists would need to know an actual nucleotide sequence of properly working original and this information is often lost for good.


Actually that is one of the few things I believe Gene splicing would be useful for, reactivating parts of the Human genome that have become dysfunctional like Vitamin C synthesis. If the human system could be repaired then Scurvy would cease to exist and we would no longer have to worry about any of the side effects of Vitamin C deficiency such as inflexible plaque build up in our arteries.
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:10:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
OK, I get it. Last time you were wrong, you were claiming to know all about Neuroscience.

Now you're an expert on evolutionary genetic development.

I was not making a claim to know all about neuroscience.
I just pointed out some silliness in one particular project.
Just attention grabbing tactics aimed at securing research funds.
In the past I was taking a part in number of research projects, so I am well aware about substantial gap between overhyped public claims and what project managers are actually expecting to achieve.

On the other hand you are senselessly parroting whatever you read, meantime assuming it to be an absolute truth (because someone whom you deem to be an expert have written it somewhere).

Now go to peel your chicken genome onion.
Last edited by EnergyUnlimited on Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:21:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:16:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'A')ctually that is one of the few things I believe Gene splicing would be useful for, reactivating parts of the Human genome that have become dysfunctional like Vitamin C synthesis. If the human system could be repaired then Scurvy would cease to exist and we would no longer have to worry about any of the side effects of Vitamin C deficiency such as inflexible plaque build up in our arteries.

And I agree with that.
That would be a legitimate example of germ line therapy.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby Carlhole » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:20:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
OK, I get it. Last time you were wrong, you were claiming to know all about Neuroscience.

Now you're an expert on evolutionary genetic development.

I was not making a claim to know all about neuroscience.
I just pointed out some silliness in one particular project.
Just attention grabbing tactics aimed at securing research funds.

On the other hand you are senselessly parroting whatever you read, meantime assuming it to be an absolute truth (because someone whom you deem to be an expert have written it somewhere).

Now go to peel your chicken genome onion.


Who believes this or that article is "absolutely true"? Certainly not me!

But I post whatever is interesting. And when a judgement is necessary, I find someone qualified to make that judgement. I don't require people to take MY word for anything - because I'm just like you are: an anonymous poster on a public discussion board.

If you can't link to any qualified sources, don't bother claiming any special knowledge.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:33:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'B')ut I post whatever is interesting. And when a judgement is necessary, I find someone qualified to make that judgement. I don't require people to take MY word for anything - because I'm just like you are: an anonymous poster on a public discussion board.

So are you actually investigating these findings, say by interviewing concerned individuals or other experts from relevant field ?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you can't link to any qualified sources, don't bother claiming any special knowledge.

Problem with these qualified sources is that many of actual source articles related to topics which you are posting are not available online or are available behind a paygate, other qualified sources are simply in company knowledge domain and details are not published and yet other set of these sources are simply classified (and sometimes can be a part of government disinformation campaign).

Most, what we are finding online are company releases meant to make particular company looking attractive, some overhyped academic claims, various not necessary accurate abstracts of some research papers etc.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby Carlhole » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:51:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'P')roblem with these qualified sources...


Linking to decent sources for facts and qualified judgement is easy and everybody does it to lend credibility.

Apparently, despite all the footnoting and indexing work you must have done writing the many scientific papers you must have written and all the papers in your higher academic career, you must somehow lost the habit of backing up what you say.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 28 Aug 2009, 03:21:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Linking to decent sources for facts and qualified judgement is easy and everybody does it to lend credibility.

So why do you have a trouble to find some qualified expert discussion about feasibility of EEStor technology?
It still hangs in the limbo between theoretically possible and practically not necessarily achievable.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')pparently, despite all the footnoting and indexing work you must have done writing the many scientific papers you must have written and all the papers in your higher academic career, you must somehow lost the habit of backing up what you say.

I am usually providing here criticism for some claims which I consider outrageous.
These claims are sometimes running into face of what is known rather on basic, not expert level.
You should not expect to find immediate debunking of such claims somewhere in scientific community.
They are usually left alone with polite smile between those concerned.

So you don't have to be an evolution expert to realize that unused genes can be mutated to uselessness without significant adverse side effects within 65 millions of years.

OK, one guy is making a claim that he can restore them to working order.
Others know the same what I have written above (this is rather basic knowledge), but they do not feel compelled to write a peer reviewed critical paper because they have other more useful jobs to do.
Lets him do it after all...
Will he get a dinosaur back?
Definitely no.

Will he produce some badly deformed bird, resembling dinosaur in several aspects?
Possibly yes.

Can his work help to restore an actual dinosaur or something very close to it?
Yes, but only if we succeed in the future to reclaim some miraculously preserved ancient dinosaur DNA, so we know which corrections of current defunct genes present in birds are needed.

What are the odds for it?
Base on what we know about DNA stability, they are extremely slim, but not zero.

Can his work help bring back to life other extinct species?
Yes, dodo is a good candidate.

Why?
Because we have access to dodo's original DNA right now and research of this scientist can help us with fiddling genes of existing related birds (say kiwi) to bring them back to a dodo's setup.
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby vampyregirl » Sat 27 Feb 2010, 14:51:13

What will Colonel Sanders do? Dinosaurs taste like chicken?
Can you imagine the supersize at KFD, Kentucky Fried Dyno?
Bwack bwack bwack RAWR!
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Re: Canadian scientist aims to turn chickens into dinosaurs

Postby efarmer » Sat 27 Feb 2010, 20:53:06

It may be the reverse process, but..

The United States Congress has already proven that dinosaurs can be
turned in chickens, and it was reliable, and cheap. The Canadian should
study these chickens first, they are very poor specimens of chickens, and
they were some truly fine dinosaurs at one time.

What do you think he could turn a bankster into?
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