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Electricity Prices Plummet

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Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 21:01:38

>>> Ze link <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')UGUST 13, 2009
Electricity Prices Plummet
BY REBECCA SMITH

Slack demand for electricity across the U.S. is leading to some of the sharpest reductions in power prices in recent years, offering a break for consumers and businesses who just a year ago were getting crunched by massive electricity bills.

On Friday, the nation's largest wholesale power market serving parts of 13 states east of the Rockies is expected to report that electricity demand fell 4.4% in the first half of the year. That helped to push down spot market prices by 40% during the first half of this year.

[...]
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 21:30:36

EIA's data and forecast isn't quite what I'd call "Plummeting"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/S ... trical.png
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 21:59:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'E')IA's data and forecast isn't quite what I'd call "Plummeting"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/S ... trical.png

That shows consumption, not prices. The article is titled, "Electricity Prices Plummet." Just in case you didn't notice. :wink:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 22:25:49

The drop has been very substantial, no doubt, but electricity is a notoriously volatile commodity.

Image

Spot Electricity is priced at the margins. Natural Gas provides that marginal power. Thus, natural gas prices heavily influence electricity prices.

NG prices have collapsed since last summer from $13 to $4. That examples much of electricity's drop.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 00:14:22

Your article talked about "slack demand".

4% is not a big deal, its strictly due to the recession which you claim is over. If it isn't that then what is causing this demand drop?

That "slack demand" should completely dissapear shortly since you believe the recession is already over. We will see young Paduan, we will see.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 00:20:09

Just to be clear: Electricity prices 'have plummeted'. They're not 'plummeting'.

This is normal boom and bust for electricity prices. Interesting, yes, but nothing new or unusual about it.

BTW, our electric charges are about the same this year as last. No 'plummeting' around these parts.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby biofuel13 » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 00:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '&')gt;>> Ze link <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')UGUST 13, 2009
Electricity Prices Plummet
BY REBECCA SMITH

Slack demand for electricity across the U.S. is leading to some of the sharpest reductions in power prices in recent years, offering a break for consumers and businesses who just a year ago were getting crunched by massive electricity bills.

On Friday, the nation's largest wholesale power market serving parts of 13 states east of the Rockies is expected to report that electricity demand fell 4.4% in the first half of the year. That helped to push down spot market prices by 40% during the first half of this year.

[...]


SWEET! **RUNS AROUND THE HOUSE AND TURNS ON EVERY APPLIANCE SIMULTANEOUSLY**
AHHHH, nothing like the gentle hum of an empty microwave on high while relaxing in my max AC environment. I just cranked 'er down to 55 F.

Lets see how much slack demand there is in a few years when everyone is driving and charging their Volts and Leafs. :roll: :roll:
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Arsenal » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 10:11:46

I believe part of it has to do with the cooler than normal weather "we" are getting. "We" being the northeast. 60F is the norm this summer with a three or four days of high 80's. I have yet to turn on my AC compared to last year when it was constantly running. Less demand = Lower prices.

Just a theory. :|
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby aahala2 » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 10:35:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'Y')our article talked about "slack demand". 4% is not a big deal,

You're absolutely correct. It's not a "big deal" :-D

It's just that the stats the EIA shows only goes back to 1949 and
this is the first time a decline of this magnitude has been recorded.

So I agree with your statement, it's not big, it's really big.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Pops » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 12:07:22

Yea, that's not all that plummeted:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he first quarter of 2009, which last month had been estimated as declining at a 5.5% annual rate [of GDP], now shows an even worse 6.4% decline due to the benchmark revisions.


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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 12:14:54

A prediction that came true !

Industrial power usage plummeted with recession

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectricity sales to industrial customers are expected to shrink 6.4 percent this year, leading to an expected 1.7 percent drop in overall power consumption in 2009, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said in its most recent outlook.


There is a pie chart somewhere showing Residential, Commercial and Industrial Electricity useage. Industrial makes up a large percentage of the total.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Roy » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 13:40:40

http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=2152

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uke, Entergy Profits Drop as Power Demand Declines

From Bloomberg

Duke Energy Corp. led U.S. utility owners in reporting declines in second-quarter earnings after the recession sapped demand for power to run factories.

Duke’s profit dropped 21 percent to $276 million, according to a statement today by the Charlotte, North Carolina-based owner of utilities in the East and Midwest. New Orleans-based Entergy, the second-largest U.S. producer of nuclear power, said its net income fell 16 percent to $226.8 million. Progress Energy Inc., Consolidated Edison Inc. and Allegheny Energy Inc. also reported declines in earnings, and PPL Corp. posted a loss.

“Demand seems to be flattening out, and we don’t expect to see a strong rebound for probably another year and a half,” Duke Chief Executive Officer Jim Rogers said in a telephone interview. “I think the recovery will be pretty anemic, and it might be as late as 2011 before we see a full rebound.”


Wait!!! Didn't the genii at Fox News announce just yesterday that most economists believe (if you've ever seen the documentary Outfoxed -- "Some are saying") that the recession is over.

I guess a reduction in demand would tend to reduce prices in a real market economy. So is electricity demand a real economic indicator?

And does that mean that once the dieoff starts, that health care in the US will become affordable due to reduced demand?


:lol:
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby retiredguy » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 21:02:30

We just had the coolest July on record. So has much of the upper Midwest and NE.

I've run the A/C just twice this entire summer. Not once in July. And as a northern guy, I have a low tolerance of heat.

Summer seems to be here, now. Let's see what electricity usage looks like in August.

BTW. Our utility company is asking for a rate increase to cover there losses this summer.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Starvid » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 05:54:51

This kind of volatility kills new investment in power infrastructure by all but the best capitalised players, which is why you should have regulated power prices. Volatility creates risk, which pushes up interest rates on the debt for these projects, which means that not only does power become more expensive as the bankers take a bigger cut, but the generation mixed is skewed away from capital intensive plants (wind, nuclear) to cheap plants with high fuel costs, like gas, which also increase power prices for consumers in the long run.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby Starvid » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 06:24:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'B')TW. Our utility company is asking for a rate increase to cover there losses this summer.

If American companies didn't obsess so incredible about short term "share holder value" and cut their balance sheets to the bone and take on more and more debt to make way for more dividends (sorry, "optimize" the balance sheet), they wouldn't need to raise prices. On this side of the pond utilites are often partly or wholly state-owned, and have solid balance sheets that make them cope with the vagaries of the market while being able to take on long-term investment needs in new capacity and the grid. They also keep taxes down by the dividends they pay the state. Did I mention our power is cheaper too?
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 19:13:37

I'm with you on this one, star. Hyper-capitalism has pretty well ruined the country.

Even trying to get the tiniest increment of health car reform has met with raving lunatics howling in the streets about communist take over. Truly sad and pathetic.
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 19:34:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectricity Prices Plummet


How come my ele bills have been going up then? :cry:
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 21:37:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectricity Prices Plummet
How come my ele bills have been going up then? :cry:

Maybe you're using more electricity?
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 09:18:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'M')aybe you're using more electricity?

No, less. I went to a LCD TV, put a timer on my hot water heater (I have hot water only in the morning), use only 13 watt light bulbs, use no A/C, installed two new widows that were bad and I still got a bill for $37 this last Month. :P
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Re: Electricity Prices Plummet

Unread postby aahala2 » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 10:31:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectricity Prices Plummet
How come my ele bills have been going up then? :cry:

The original article was primarily about wholesale prices not retail. There can be a time lag.

The linked article may not have been about your utility. I took it to mean generally, not specific to my (or your) electrical bill.
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