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Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

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Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby Kristen » Thu 06 Aug 2009, 16:19:49

Cognitive dissonance, or negative dissonance, is a coined term to describe such an incredible power that shapes our lives at our own cost. It’s worth mentioning here, in order to better understand the economic crisis; one must examine the perspective it is seen in.

Before dissonance theory became mainstream in the mid-twentieth century, most people assumed that a person would repeat the action, only if given the proper reward. This ignores two key elements of the human species; Most human beings process information irrationally and the need for self-justification. Dissonance Theory explains these flaws and gives a more multi-dimensional view of the human character.

Cognitive dissonance states two things. The first being that a person feels the pangs of dissonance when a new idea is introduced that contradicts a person’s current idea of something. When Galileo first argued this Earth was indeed round, he was called a traitor and tried for heresy. His idea was not consistent with the current belief “the world is flat” Hitherto, his stoning and eventual death.

The second continuality proves the need to justify our actions can interfere with our understanding of the truth. It also can mold our future ideals. Adam is a 25 year old, faced with the prospect of cheating at an exam. If he cheats on the examine, his opinion on cheating becomes “Everyone needs to do what they do to survive.” The interesting thing is if doesn’t cheat, he will become even more puritan, and the immorality of cheating will seem greater to him. This has been documented in many case studies.

That leaves me with many questions? How can I avoid the powers of cognitive dissonance from controlling my mind? There is certainly not any dissonance therapies or ways to cope except the normal, which include; alienation, isolation, translation, and split identities. Perhaps the two ideals, “America is the best! America is peaceful! America is powerful!” and the one reverberated by the media “100,000 civilians dead! Wall Street corruption! Unemployment in double digits!”, are overcooking our dissonance meters?? Just reading the news is one healthy dose of it.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 06 Aug 2009, 16:49:06

I hope this doesn't cause you any cognitive dissonance, but people in Greece knew the earth was round two thousand years before Galileo lived. Philosophers like Eratosthenes and Pythagoras even made calculations of the diameter of the earth.

The Romans also knew the earth was round. Around 150 AD, Ptolemy, a geographer, mathematician, and astronomer wrote an eight-volume compilation of the world's Geography including extensive maps of the known world, all based on a curved globe.

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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby dorlomin » Thu 06 Aug 2009, 18:37:50

It is a psycological term adopted by political writers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Alot of psychology was apropriated by the far left in the 20th century especialy the likes of Camus, Fanon, Satre, Foucault and so on. I will be open though and say I am going on other peoples comentry rather than my own reading. Camus is supposed to be a good read but Im not sure I could handle Foucault or Satre.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby Ferretlover » Thu 06 Aug 2009, 19:31:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', ' ')“America is the best! America is peaceful! America is powerful!”

No matter what else all the other countries say about the US, they can't deny we are Very good at marketing ourselves! :lol:
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby lper100km » Fri 07 Aug 2009, 03:19:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'C')ognitive dissonance, or negative dissonance, is a coined term to describe such an incredible power that shapes our lives at our own cost. It’s worth mentioning here, in order to better understand the economic crisis; one must examine the perspective it is seen in.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘incredible power’ or how it can be used to understand the economic crisis. CD is defined as the mental state where a person can hold two conflicting views on the same topic simultaneously, possibly without either being aware of it or being bothered by it. There is discomfort, perhaps embarrassment and even anger when the irrationality is exposed.

It is possible also that CD is a coping mechanism, where the consequences of acting in a consistently rational manner on some issue are too painful for a person to handle. In those circumstances it could be considered as beneficial to a person’s general well being.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen Galileo first argued this Earth was indeed round, he was called a traitor and tried for heresy. His idea was not consistent with the current belief “the world is flat” Hitherto, his stoning and eventual death.

Galileo was not stoned, unless years of house arrest drove him ‘potty’. He did die eventually though.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Fri 07 Aug 2009, 05:46:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'T')hat leaves me with many questions? How can I avoid the powers of cognitive dissonance from controlling my mind? There is certainly not any dissonance therapies or ways to cope except the normal, which include; alienation, isolation, translation, and split identities. Perhaps the two ideals, “America is the best! America is peaceful! America is powerful!” and the one reverberated by the media “100,000 civilians dead! Wall Street corruption! Unemployment in double digits!”, are overcooking our dissonance meters?? Just reading the news is one healthy dose of it.

I agree that the psychological battles we face can be huge. Especially if we try to understand the world and shape it into something better for ourselves. I'm sure it would be easier to take the "blue pill" and just be a mindless TV addict that eats the crap offered. It takes courage and vision to see the world as it really is and not how we would like it to be. It takes a lot to act in ways outside of the status quo. Personally-it has been difficult.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby kjmclark » Fri 07 Aug 2009, 08:33:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lper100km', 'I')’m not sure what you mean by ‘incredible power’ or how it can be used to understand the economic crisis. CD is defined as the mental state where a person can hold two conflicting views on the same topic simultaneously, possibly without either being aware of it or being bothered by it. There is discomfort, perhaps embarrassment and even anger when the irrationality is exposed.

Having a long-held belief confronted with contradictory ideas or evidence can result in dissonance. The dissonance doesn't have to be due to long-held beliefs in conflict. Wikipedia says, "Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms."

1. "Oil production is peaking, expect higher prices and be prepared to make changes."

- "Yes, I've read that, but that can't be right. Why are these prices going up?! It must be evil oil companies and speculators! I know enough economics to know that when prices go up they should produce more so the prices go down!"

2. "This is a housing bubble. Prices are climbing due to speculation and will eventually fall, taking the economy with them."

- "That's not possible. Look at how much money I've made! House prices may fall in some places, but not nationwide. History says that doesn't happen."
- "Why can't I refinance? I did before, and my house is even better than before!"
- "Why won't someone buy my house!?! It's worth at least that much! I know that it's better than the house down the block, and that one sold last year."
- "There's no way I'm accepting a bid $20k less than what I know it's worth! This is temporary, I'll just wait a few months for people to come to their senses. They're just reading about this in the alarmist news and trying to take advantage."

3. "The pain from this bursting bubble will be widespread."

- "I can't understand why I was laid off! A college degree, 15 years of experience, and we're in marketing, not cars or construction! The boss must have been jealous."
- "This is ridiculous! Tax revenues keep falling, but that has to stop or we'll have to cut important things like school and prison funding, and maybe even our legislative salaries! Things just don't work that way."

4. "Oil production is peaking, expect higher prices and be prepared to make changes."

- "No, that can't be right. This is the biggest recession since the Great Depression! Oil prices have to fall because there's less demand! Why are these oil prices staying high! Why are they rising! It must be greedy oil companies and speculators. Economics says prices should be falling."
- "Look, I live four miles from work, and I have all of these errands to run every day. I can't possibly bike to work! And I really need my Tahoe, because it snows around here and I have lots of stuff to carry sometimes. Besides, what would people think?"
... and eventually...
- "Those evil middle east countries are holding back their oil from us! If they won't produce enough to keep these prices down, we'll just have to go over there and make them do it! I really hate wars, I really hope Kate's son Eddie won't have to fight."

5. "There are a lot of parallels between this swine flu pandemic and the 1918 pandemic; mild outbreak in the spring, rare continuing spread during the summer, surprising deaths in the healthy 20-40 age group, etc."

- "This is just the flu. There are some steps that the medical community and governments should be taking, but there's nothing for us to do. Besides, I'm very healthy!"
- "It's just the flu. You get sick for a few days and then get better. What's the big deal? They'd better not close the schools - I have to go to work!"
- "Why should I stay home? It's just a bit of a cough. I have important things to do at work. They rely on me."
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby lper100km » Fri 07 Aug 2009, 12:39:04

So at what point does a simple difference of opinion between two people, albeit drawn from the same data set, become cognitive dissonance – if ever? This just seems to be normal behaviour.

CD seems to require that there is an absolute truth to which the other position can be compared and therefore destroyed. This is seldom the case outside of the body of science. Absolute truths are difficult to come by, so more often a strongly held position is substituted and therefore believed to be true. Is the holder of such an opinion correct or simply guilty of self delusion?

On other words, CD is simply a fancy name for perception differences, even if they are held by the same person. Self deception is nothing new and resides in all of us from time to time. Observing those traits in others prompts us to explain them away depending on our view of the person - ie “he’s such a sleazebag” or “he’s the most pragmatic person I know” etc etc.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby kjmclark » Fri 07 Aug 2009, 22:44:17

Cognitive dissonance isn't between multiple people. It's when a person has two conflicting beliefs or thoughts.

Here's an example. I know full well that cyclists being hit from behind while biking properly on major arterials is a *very* rare crash. I've known this for years, and safely biked for years with only a few minor incidents. For some odd reason, today while biking home, I had a random thought about what it would be like if someone hit me. It really freaked me out. But the real problem was immediately after that, when I came back to reality, and realized I was still in the same world where I wasn't likely to be hit, but at the same time had that mental image still there of being hit.

So right now, I have some cognitive dissonance about the whole thing. The rational part of me knows that it's nuts to worry about being hit from behind; it's extremely rare, and I might as well worry about being hit by lightning. But a less rational part of my mind keeps playing back that tiny little nightmare. I'll probably have anxiety about the whole thing for a few days, while the two parts of my brain hash it out.

Most of the examples I gave above involve a belief that the world works a certain way, and someone running smack up against a wall that shows it really works differently. The whole housing bubble is full of people experiencing cognitive dissonance about how they thought housing and debt works and what's happening. They were told that house prices only go up. All they've seen their whole lives is housing prices rising. They've risen more quickly and more slowly at times, but always went up. They built their lives in part on the assumption that the price would be higher in the future and they could cash out and retire on that. Now they're seeing that it doesn't necessarily work that way, and they're having a hard time adjusting, because of cognitive dissonance - prices always go up, but they're going down - it can't be!
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby Kristen » Sat 08 Aug 2009, 13:52:53

CD or self deception (as defined latter) is awesomely powerful! It's very easy to do and it can be hard to obtain a different perspective, even if the data stares blankly in your face. As far as the stoning goes, I must of been thinking of a different astronomer. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', ' ')“America is the best! America is peaceful! America is powerful!”
No matter what else all the other countries say about the US, they can't deny we are Very good at marketing ourselves! :lol:

That's for sure. The last six years (since I graduated high school) have been a real eye opener for me. The atrocitites we have commited in the 20th century certainly were not a part of my history courses until college.

But as always and said before, there few absolute truths and it is impossible to predict the future.

Kjm, thanks for literating how it relates to economics. You wrote it better then I could've.
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby Bas » Sat 08 Aug 2009, 14:32:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', ' ')“America is the best! America is peaceful! America is powerful!”

No matter what else all the other countries say about the US, they can't deny we are Very good at marketing ourselves! :lol:


:roll:
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance, Something to Consider

Unread postby lper100km » Sun 09 Aug 2009, 12:12:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lper100km', 'S')o at what point does a simple difference of opinion between two people, albeit drawn from the same data set, become cognitive dissonance – if ever? This just seems to be normal behaviour.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', 'C')ognitive dissonance isn't between multiple people. It's when a person has two conflicting beliefs or thoughts.

I wrote my response in that particular way because I read your 5 point post as being that of one person’s reaction to the attitudes of others or to a set of external circumstances. I do know that CD is descriptive of internal conflict.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'C')D or self deception (as defined latter) is awesomely powerful! It's very easy to do and it can be hard to obtain a different perspective, even if the data stares blankly in your face.

Why CD is powerful is still not clear to me despite the further statement. A person may hold a belief that is self empowering or even allow a person to gain power over others. The self realization that such a belief is held in denial of its logical consequences or is illogical in itself is more likely to cause a bruised ego and evoke negative reactions at least for a while. Depending on the strength of the belief a person could go through a period of considerable internal turmoil while resolving the issues. Maybe that’s what Kristen is meaning. Most people find it difficult to live with inconsistency and try to resolve it for peace of mind.

CD is the name of a condition, not the cause. People who will not change their belief when presented with evidence to the contrary are in a state of denial to the outside observer. But if the person simply rejects the alternative explanation, sensing no challenge to their own belief, their internal belief system remains intact and they suffer no internal conflict. We refer to such people as being stubborn, or having a fixed attitude. It happens all the time. Sometimes, they are right! It is the strength of the belief that is powerful, not CD.
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