[virgincrude]

I went through my personal period of hopelessness and when I saw the sky hadn't fallen (especially after this whole economic meltdown crapola) I started coming out from behind the sofa a bit more: I started contemplating the possibility that PO did not, in fact, mean TEOTWAWKI ...

I found out about the many and always supressed 'inventors' of free energy (Tesla and many others less well documented,) and the famous US Army 'secret' and no doubt ongoing experiments with what many would have us believe are 'alien' energy forces. I don't believe in the whole 'aliens rule us' or disclosure stuff. I believe only man is sufficiently cruel and scheming enough to withold from humanity advances that would literally free us from the current energy-as-economy system, and I believe this is what is going on.

I found out about the theory of the Electric Universe, which if correct, actually confirms my belief about the witholding and supression of universally free energy sources. And these are things which give hope for a far better future. Admittedly only after tremendous suffering, and probably much struggling and many bloody revolutions and wars, but hey, that's exactly what we've got now.

The system shall not collapse until U.S Army bases world wide are dismantled, and not until the Vatican puts the Pope in sack cloth and ashes. The system shall not collapse until each and every human life is finally deemed of equal value and this value is not counted in monetary terms. In other words, when hypocricy is but a bad memory and the most important teaching of the world's great religions is actually adhered to: Do No Harm To Others, only then shall the system and the world as we know it actually come to an end. (Only to start afresh.)

More recently, I'm coming to realise that the whole overpopulation problem has and is caused by the very same economic system we all kow-tow to. In other words, once this system actually collapses or tranforms into a more humane and 'quality rather than priviledge' universality (rather than globalization) based system, the human population will balance out. Not through famine, and drought, (that's the system we've got now- for the undeveloped world,) but through a kind of inevitable 'Mayan calendar' style personal evolution.

(Oh, and by the way, cancer is treatable through alternative methods, only it's not in Big Pharma's interest that you know about Graviola, or B17 or the many known cancer fighting properties of hundreds of common plants and herbs. So, just like the whole 'free energy' thing, it all gets supressed and ocassionally 'proven' not to work/exist while you keep scoffing the Aspartame and MSG ... http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Strategies-Patients-Russell-Blaylock/dp/0758202210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246343155&sr=1-1) -Sorry don't know how to make that smaller ....

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ')What happens in a 10 billion human world that can only produce a bare minimal diet for 2 billion?

That is where I think we are headed.
Doesn't leave much room for hope.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I')n other words, treat life like you've just been told you have terminal cancer.

Just assume you now have maybe 10-20 years left tops, and most of the end of it will be spent just barely hanging on as your quality of life degrades to shit. What we have today, despite the depression, is about as good as it is gonna get. Under what circumstances do you want to face that future?

[Gerontion]

Is there any hope? Sure. The future's not set in stone. If climate change is as bad as some predict then we're super-fucked but if it's merely disastrous, and if the response to peak oil isn't a worldwide "grab your gun" (and in many, many countries, that's not the initial reaction to a problem) then maybe the future won't be the baby-eating hell so many people on this board seem to look forward to. There's every chance people will still fall in love, watch a beautiful sunset, get drunk with friends, dance stupidly and do all the other things that make life great. And they might not have to spend their lives wedded to the corporation and in hock to the bank to do this. Doesn't sound that awful.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'I') went through my personal period of hopelessness and when I saw the sky hadn't fallen (especially after this whole economic meltdown crapola) I started coming out from behind the sofa a bit more: I started contemplating the possibility that PO did not, in fact, mean TEOTWAWKI ...
...
I found out about the many and always supressed 'inventors' of free energy

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'I') went through my personal period of hopelessness and when I saw the sky hadn't fallen (especially after this whole economic meltdown crapola) I started coming out from behind the sofa a bit more: I started contemplating the possibility that PO did not, in fact, mean TEOTWAWKI ...
...
I found out about the many and always supressed 'inventors' of free energy

[hillsidedigger]

There's a whole world of hope for fortunately positioned, hard-working and innovative individuals and small groups but that's far from being everyone.

[virgincrude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')
In other words, you went from anxiety to tinfoil belief in energy fairies. Good move. You've really evolved.

[Quinny]

I tend to think the 2nd law is fairly well proven.

One of the things that has strengthened my belief that PO is not only inevitable but that it will also have severe consequences for LAWKI is the fact that the 'solutions' tend to break the laws of physics, and that those who argue against the inevitabilty put forward conspiracy theories as the reason for resource shortages. They also tend to (almost deliberately) underestimate the scale of the problem.

Think about it; which is most likely?

Severe disruption or collapse of society because of the increasing difficulty of obtaining the main natural resource that has driven the industrial economy on which we rely on.

or...

Some group existing that are 'hiding' a secret hoard/source of energy that will allow us to continue LAWKI indefinately but under their control.

or...

People scaling back their usage to a level that will allow us to continue to live LAWKI without FF by scaling up Renewables to a level where they can fully substitute.

or...

The financial system that channels resources in LAWKI can continue to exist at 0% growth without causing systemic collapse.

It's not just logical and inevitable that we're facing a shit storm, it's also the most/only plausible outcome of our current situation.

I don't believe it means we should be without hope. We must try and plan for both fast and slow crash scenarios and build resilience into those plans where we can. Forewarned is forearmed, and in a fast crash scenario even a little forethought could make a big difference for you and your family. In a slow crash, attitude is key, and that's where IMO building relationships with neighbours and skills to be more self sufficient are key. IMO the good thing is that although preparation for the 2 scenarios is different it's not mutually exclusive.

If you have a goal, then you have something to work towards and so there is hope. Your hopes may be dashed, but you've got to re-group and try again. I look at my childen and fear for their future, because it's going to be tough, but it only makes me more determined to build their skills and strength of character so they have a better chance of making it through. Never give up.

[rangerone314]

Hope died a long time ago.

Okay, six years isn't THAT long ago.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'I') went through my personal period of hopelessness and when I saw the sky hadn't fallen (especially after this whole economic meltdown crapola) I started coming out from behind the sofa a bit more: I started contemplating the possibility that PO did not, in fact, mean TEOTWAWKI ... ... I found out about the many and always supressed 'inventors' of free energy

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'H')ope died a long time ago.

Okay, six years isn't THAT long ago.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bodigami', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'H')ope died a long time ago. Okay, six years isn't THAT long ago.

[Grautr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mike Morin', '
')It is a shame that we choose to give up, although to keep hope alive requires either stupidity or ignorance of the fact that we would have to drastically alter at least 100 years of evolutionary progress/damage done with and around the automobile. Would rebuilding neighborhoods to make goods and services available within walking distance for almost all (reducing automobile usage in the United States by 80% in the next twenty to forty years) go far enough, fast enough to conserve fuel for the great uses for future generations (heating, cooking, hot water, agriculture, electricity, NECESSARY transport)?