PeakOil is You
US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by ForlornHope » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 15:36:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'd')isrespecting our cities is what killed them and got us into this energy mess. It will not solve either.
Respectfully, not so. I think many a poster here fails to think in the long term. The fate of ALL cities in the end is ruins. Starting with Ur(windswept saltpan and desert today), ending with...only the gods know. Cheers
Forlorn (for all the earth's cities) Hope(we can return to a pastorial existance one day)
Be kind to friend and kin, and reward not their trespasses against you; bear and forbear, and win for yourself thereby long enduring praise of men.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
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ForlornHope - Peat
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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by anador » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 16:20:32
.... those cities everywhere else in the world that have been continuously inhabited for millenia ... an obvious fluke then.....
@#$% highways
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anador - Coal
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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by ForlornHope » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 17:51:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', '.')... those cities everywhere else in the world that have been continuously inhabited for millenia ... an obvious fluke then.....
No, not at all. There are very few that have been inhabited for millenia, by the same people. They grow, decay, lay in ruin till another people(or a later rendition of the original inhabitants) rebuild anew.(They do this because usually the previous city was located there for some beneficial reason, strategic, trade, closeness to water etc, hence rebuilt later on the exact same spot). But that hardly counts as a continous city.
Millenia(thousands of years) for a city to survive intact is a rarity. Hundreds of years, definately. In Asia there are more than a handful. In Europe some. In Africa only in Egypt, and these not continuosly. In North America, and the U.S.A. in particular, I believe the oldest Continuosly occupied city since inception is St. Augustine, Florida. And that, for only about 400 yrs give or take.
But back to the OP, its a waste to spend the effort, time, and money to do something that will naturally occur in every city...turn to ruins.
It's only in our energy intensive arrogance that we think we can overcome entrophy and natural cycles with regards to our cities.
Just some ponderings, no arguements intended.
Cheers
Forlorn Hope
Be kind to friend and kin, and reward not their trespasses against you; bear and forbear, and win for yourself thereby long enduring praise of men.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
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ForlornHope - Peat
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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by anador » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 18:17:38
This is not that same thing though, What we have in this country is form based code policy nightmare that is phasing cities out of existence by CODE.
We didnt fight a war here after 1950, we didnt have a continental economic collapse, we didnt have drought, or famine, none of the traditional cycles of city abandonment and renewal have occurred here.
Look at europe and look at our continent, the cities of our country are raped destroyed and abandoned. The bloody continent that had the war is in better shape than we are their cities are clean and beautiful and people love to live in them and attract people from this country that view them as a curiousity.
And dont give me the age argument because we had thriving towns here 50 short years ago.
The only thing that changed is that we made it illegal to build anything but suburbia, our cities couldnt continue building properly, stagnated, gentrified and were destroyed by Unrealistic modernist suto utopia dreams that were not grounded in reality.
We didnt fight a war here after 1950, we didnt have a continental economic collapse, we didnt have drought, or famine, none of the traditional cycles of city abandonment and renewal have occurred here.
Look at europe and look at our continent, the cities of our country are raped destroyed and abandoned. The bloody continent that had the war is in better shape than we are their cities are clean and beautiful and people love to live in them and attract people from this country that view them as a curiousity.
And dont give me the age argument because we had thriving towns here 50 short years ago.
The only thing that changed is that we made it illegal to build anything but suburbia, our cities couldnt continue building properly, stagnated, gentrified and were destroyed by Unrealistic modernist suto utopia dreams that were not grounded in reality.
@#$% highways
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anador - Coal
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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by ForlornHope » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 19:44:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'T')his is not that same thing though, What we have in this country is form based code policy nightmare that is phasing cities out of existence by CODE.
We didnt fight a war here after 1950, we didnt have a continental economic collapse, we didnt have drought, or famine, none of the traditional cycles of city abandonment and renewal have occurred here.
Look at europe and look at our continent, the cities of our country are raped destroyed and abandoned. The bloody continent that had the war is in better shape than we are their cities are clean and beautiful and people love to live in them and attract people from this country that view them as a curiousity.
And dont give me the age argument because we had thriving towns here 50 short years ago.
The only thing that changed is that we made it illegal to build anything but suburbia, our cities couldnt continue building properly, stagnated, gentrified and were destroyed by Unrealistic modernist suto utopia dreams that were not grounded in reality.
We didnt fight a war here after 1950, we didnt have a continental economic collapse, we didnt have drought, or famine, none of the traditional cycles of city abandonment and renewal have occurred here.
Look at europe and look at our continent, the cities of our country are raped destroyed and abandoned. The bloody continent that had the war is in better shape than we are their cities are clean and beautiful and people love to live in them and attract people from this country that view them as a curiousity.
And dont give me the age argument because we had thriving towns here 50 short years ago.
The only thing that changed is that we made it illegal to build anything but suburbia, our cities couldnt continue building properly, stagnated, gentrified and were destroyed by Unrealistic modernist suto utopia dreams that were not grounded in reality.
Well put. But give N. America time(a lot less time than it took in Europe I'm afraid), and you'll get raped, destroyed and abandoned cities here too.
Suburbia is a strangling force, that has not been dealt with here, obviously due to very cheap oil energy...this is about to change very quickly I think.
Cheers
Forlorn Hope
Be kind to friend and kin, and reward not their trespasses against you; bear and forbear, and win for yourself thereby long enduring praise of men.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
It is their lot who stand with the great that they enjoy high honors, and are more respected than others, but stand often in danger of their lives.
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ForlornHope - Peat
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50 US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
by lowem » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 04:24:33
globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com -> telegraph.co.uk :
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he government [is] looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature. Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area. The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint. Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country. Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities ... as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes ...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he government [is] looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature. Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area. The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint. Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country. Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities ... as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes ...
What can peakoilers say, except that we saw this coming. People leaving the cities, especially in the Detroit area. Reversal of urban sprawl. It's just that some of these structures are a bit too much of a waste to leave standing around and a bit too much of a hassle to pull down.
See also :
1. Ghostboxes
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lowem - Expert
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Last month I went down each water slide except the crazy claustrophobic one sending people down a long tunnel.