[Jack]

You might enjoy reading "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler. Your perspective seems quite close to his.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are too many service-oriented or construction-oriented vehicles on the roads. There are too many tractor-trailers... too many landscaping services... too many delivery services, home-repair or installation services, too many competitions as well.

[Ludi]

Personally, I'm having a heck of a time figuring out what I'll do to make money in the future. I have specialist skills, I guess, but they won't be particularly needed in a society which has disposed of "waste."

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'Y')ou might enjoy reading "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler. Your perspective seems quite close to his.

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I') imagine that with everything being local, they will have to acquire new skills to provide a service or good locally. there are a lot of things that go into everyday living. I suspect that they will get more expensive and those that have especial skills in one area or craft will still specialize while the rest of us will be more general in our work.
things will certainly get difficult for a while and we could see a resurgence of indentured service.
certainly we won't need lanscapers but they can branch out into community garden projects. I think its more the paper pushers that will find themselves without. certainly we will need them still but it may be that accounting etc will go back to being part of everyones job after all the other work of the day is done.

[ProjectPurity]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'P')ersonally, I'm having a heck of a time figuring out what I'll do to make money in the future. I have specialist skills, I guess, but they won't be particularly needed in a society which has disposed of "waste."

[NevadaGhosts]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat's worse is next month that graduating students from colleges/universities are expected to look for comfortable or cushy jobs on the mistaken assumption that their college degrees will land them in such jobs.

[Ludi]

One way to counteract the lack of jobs is to somehow devise a way in which people can live comfortably with a much smaller income. How to transition to this way of life is quite a challenge. I think it might depend on people being able to pool their resources and maybe be willing to do a variety of things to make a living. I only work part-time myself (average 2-3 hours per day), the rest of the time I spend working toward sustainable semi-self-sufficiency. But the need for cash is still there, for taxes, which I consider protection money paid to the government to leave me alone.

[mgibbons19]

This is the topic that most interests me. I sit and wonder how what is might work in a low energy environment. On one hand it is just a matter of organization. Ppl still have needs. Ppl will still work. It just has to be organized differently. OTOH, there is a tremendous amount of inertia and sunk capital in what is, and ppl may not willingly transition out of it. So, how does the transition work? I can hardly see ppl changing bc they 'should.' But I do see them changing bc it is in their own best interest to do so. How this tranistion happens is one of the key variables in whether a landing will be softer or harder. And of course, as has been noted, this variable is mutlifaceted. One part is infrastructural, one part is organization of work, one part is economic. This is the fun stuff, for me.

The very least I can figure is to be out ahead of the curve, so that I don't get hurt too badly.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

One thing that keeps coming back to me is that if you are developing alternative systems, people will come to you for consultation etc in developing their own. When you talk about organization at some point your city/town will need people who know how and can do these things.
So learning all these skills can be quite marketable wither to your neighbours or your town. heck, with all the subjects we've talked about on here a lot of us could make a course on alternative living for our local community colleges. You wouldn't even have to teach anything just go into the criteria for planning and imprementing alternative and which one would be best suited to each situation.
How many people will need to know how to raise chickens again.... with the breakdown in our society you can't always get this kind of help from your neighbour anymore, his yard would be inundated with vehicles from all those who will need to learn. (and partially because there is no one to go to for this info anymore).

[Ludi]

My main difficulty is, I would not want to charge money to help people learn how to help themselves. Neither would I want to charge money for food, which I think is a part of our culture which is basically flawed. Food should be free for the taking.

[Ebyss]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ood should be free for the taking

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ood should be free for the taking

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'S')o learning all these skills can be quite marketable wither to your neighbours or your town. heck, with all the subjects we've talked about on here a lot of us could make a course on alternative living for our local community colleges. You wouldn't even have to teach anything just go into the criteria for planning and imprementing alternative and which one would be best suited to each situation.

[BastardSquad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HonestPessimist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'S')o learning all these skills can be quite marketable wither to your neighbours or your town. heck, with all the subjects we've talked about on here a lot of us could make a course on alternative living for our local community colleges. You wouldn't even have to teach anything just go into the criteria for planning and imprementing alternative and which one would be best suited to each situation.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

There is no reason you couldn't charge or barter or apprentice people for skills they don't have. Like blacksmithing. or farming. There is a lot that goes into growing crops, and learning about intensive gardening can take years.

If one person can work 2 1/2 acreas intensively and they need 1 1/2 acres to grow food for their family(4 people), then there is no reason they can't farm 2 1/2 acres of your (or their ) land in exchange for learning about farming, getting food for their family, and leave you with an extra acre of food to sell that would feed a futher 3 people and make you some money or barter credit in exchange for having taught them to farm.

There are all sorts of these things you could do. I can't not look at something and find a way to profit while helping others. It makes all this greedy "them or us" stuff just that much more sickening. (although that may be the only way if you are stuck in a city for PO) then you have my sincerest condolences.

[HonestPessimist]

Getting back to the subject: changing the living infrastructure by radically re-engineering and restructuring the society to be less dependent on gas/oil.
The ideal society should be a society of centralized self-sufficient communities working in transit (energy-shared and energy-distributed underneath, communities being self-sufficient on the surface). Where you're living, you should be working near where you're living based on your serviceable skills and living within the short distance of a mass public transportation system (or MPTS, for short). Each community should have a centralized retail-grocery stores specifically for that community, also on the MPTS routes to connective communities with different kinds of centralized retail-grocery stores along the way.

For a hypothetical example:
A southern community has a Kroger retail/grocery store with several small alternative stores serving every residents and workers within 2 to 5 miles radius, while in the northern community there is a Walmart retail/grocery store with a posh shopping mall nearby serving every residents and workers in the northern hemisphere. The western and eastern communities would have brand-name retail/grocery stores with different small stores for residents/workers in the same radius distance. All of these communities are connected by the MPTS, no cars or trucks are needed to get around. One can always rent a car or truck to venture outside of the communities (country-travel or whatever) but not within. All supplies and products are delivered in underground rail system and elevated to all communities. Parks and bike/walk/jog paths are abundant in the communities.

The size of communities can be varied based on population density, market/job needs and can be expandable with the right developments and designs with the city's and the community's shared approvals. Such developments should not be factored by profit-driven interests, only for the community's and the city's best interests to be sustainable in the long run. Smart growth, not fast growth, is the mantra for the city and the communities.
If the city's communities are not for you, there are always small towns and rural communities with the direct MPTS links in between.
All of these ideas are, however, hypothetical at best. I welcome your inputs or insights. Keep in mind, we cannot go back to the old thinking, conformed modern and living standards, or wrong-headed interests such as profits-as-the-bottom-line.

[Ebyss]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')uess I should have added : "In my opinion."

[Pops]

It seems a thread about the great changes has turned back to a thread about how to shoehorn the new to the existing.
A “job” is the existing and not very old way of thinking. “Jobs” haven’t been around long; crafts, trades, livelihoods, yes – jobs, no.
As well the thinking that “we can change the world”.
No you can’t! Why are you avoiding changing what you can and getting used to what you can’t?

I haven’t watched Dr. Phil but I’m sure he would say to a beleaguered wife, “You can’t change him, you can only change yourself!”
If a wife can’t change a husband, how are “we” going to change “society”?
My point is simply that before wealth and power (that reads; subjugation) and long before cheap energy replaced subjugation - at least overtly, mankind was concerned with one thing: survival.
Oh yea, and procreation. In fact subjugation, wealth and power are all extrapolations of survival and procreation.

So the truly great ideas our civilization is based on had to do with better ways to survive and hence procreate. The end result of better ways to survive and procreate is TWAWKI.
I’m not disparaging the accomplishments of various societies by any means – I enjoy as many as I can afford. My question is more too individual responsibility for societies perpetuation. I propose that endless ruminations on the problems with society are but an attempt to ameliorate our personal responsibility for the one thing we are ultimately responsible for – the survival of our offspring.
The discussions of long range planning, societal reconstruction, entropy, inertia and all the rest of the big picture diversions will be as knowledge of stadium football statistics when your “job” is but a footnote in an unwritten history text, your home is a mud-lined culvert and your hungry child asks, “When you were talking about all this bad stuff happening to the world, why weren’t you doing something to keep this from happening to me?”

[Pops]

Sorry for the rant, I didn’t mean to kill this thread, HP.
Actually my views of hypothetical solutions are quite similar to yours.
I sometimes get annoyed at myself for being distracted by the forest when I should be focusing on the path ahead and the work I should be doing to get down that path.
I guess a little of that annoyance slipped out…