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Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 17:12:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nefarious', 'I') would have shouted to the boat that I would like to see some proper ID and if by chance he wasn't overcome with shock and awe and did pull the boat up and got out to present proper credentials I would have said "thanks but it's not my dog have a nice day"



now thats a bingo.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 19:25:50

The last time I took my pet to the park, it was flicking its tongue in my face and wrapping itself around my neck. Some kids came up to pet it and it got nervous, but it didn't bite.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'l')ittle dogs like the terriers and she spares them no quarter.


More than one neighbor of mine has a "terrier." One of them found a kitten on a balcony one day and brought it into its living room. It noticed its beloved owner in the kitchen and proceeded to go in, only the owner found the "terrier" to have dropped two halves of a kitten with its entrails hanging out on the kitchen floor; the terrier then proceeded to give its owner some kisses on the face, much to the owner's shock!

Don't underestimate "terriers".
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 11:55:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '
')Unless your dog is a really vicious type that you can't trust around people at all, I can't see why it would have to be leashed in such a location - how many other souls do you run into on a walk there, anyway?


I always carry a slip-on lead when hiking with my dog. She is trustworthy around people but responds quite vigorously if challenged by another animal. The problem I have is that the challenges usually come from the little dogs like the terriers and she spares them no quarter. She hasn't injured any dog, but people tend to get very upset .


My new puppy (now 9 months old) is a larger breed, a collie/shepherd ? who-knows-what cross. She loves other dogs, just wants to play. She has been bitten on the nose by a daschund and a lot of times it's the smaller dogs that are not friendly. However, she was attacked by a pit-bull cross near our city home recently. She was on leash at the time but the other dog was not. Luckily, she wriggled out of her collar and ran down the alley away from the dog and the owner appeared and picked up his dog.

Matt Duke, were you in a rural area walking your dog? I know dog bylaws are stricter in the cities, and they're usually formulated to avoid the worst-case scenarios. My reasoning is just that if one is out in the country walking their dog by the river, it should be okay off-least. I always thought it was ridiculous to have dogs tied up on acreages or farms all the time. But, you have to know your dog. My German Shepherd (that passed away last year) was completely harmless - she would give a little look and a wag of her tail every time someone approached, and that was it. Lots of dogs at the off-leash parks in our city, even the large breeds, are really well behaved and won't bother anyone. But, I have to say that I have to be really careful about where I let my current dog loose, for her own safety, because she just isn't that smart yet! She once chased a wild rabbit across two large fields almost onto a busy avenue but gave up the chase before she got there. My mom and dad lost a beautiful young dog after it chased a rabbit onto a busy street.

My long-winded point is that it should be okay to walk your dog off-leash in more remote areas. Does anyone remember how dogs used to just roam around neighborhoods and most people just didn't pay them much attention and the dogs just did their own thing?
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby davep » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 12:11:11

Here in France, if a dog ends up over 150 metres from its owner when not on your own property, it is considered out of control and can be shot.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 12:15:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'H')ere in France, if a dog ends up over 150 metres from its owner when not on your own property, it is considered out of control and can be shot.


Whoa, that's harsh!
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby TWilliam » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 12:44:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I') always carry a slip-on lead when hiking with my dog. She is trustworthy around people but responds quite vigorously if challenged by another animal. The problem I have is that the challenges usually come from the little dogs like the terriers and she spares them no quarter. She hasn't injured any dog, but people tend to get very upset .


My new puppy (now 9 months old) is a larger breed, a collie/shepherd ? who-knows-what cross. She loves other dogs, just wants to play. She has been bitten on the nose by a daschund and a lot of times it's the smaller dogs that are not friendly. However, she was attacked by a pit-bull cross near our city home recently. She was on leash at the time but the other dog was not. Luckily, she wriggled out of her collar and ran down the alley away from the dog and the owner appeared and picked up his dog.

One of the unfortunate side effects of constantly restraining dogs that most owners are completely unaware of is that it actually increases the likelihood of lethal confrontations between animals.

When left to their own devices, dogs have a hierarchical social structure virtually identical to that of wolves. Normally an initial interaction between two strange dogs involves a brief 'scrap' where one animal quickly establishes dominance over the other, with the submissive animal going 'belly up' to the other in a display of that submissiveness. Once the order of dominance is established the two usually get along just fine.

Unfortunately what typically happens nowadays is the dog owners endeavor to prevent the animals from engaging in this instinctive hierarchy establishment, and the result is that a grudge develops between the animals where if given the opportunity, they will actually try to kill one another. Thwarted often enough and the animals will become permanently 'murderous' toward other dogs.

Drives me nuts that most dog owners I see today seem to make little if any effort to understand the natural behavior of dogs, nor do they make any effort to learn the proper way to train them. An 'uncontrollable' animal is the fault of the owner, not of the dog. Always.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 13:31:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') drove for an hour to get as far away from people as possible. I was having a nice walk along the trail. The animal was having fun, sniffing about and swimming. Then a bureaucrat in a gunboat came full-throttle out of nowhere, swooped in and bullhorned me, commanding me to put the pet on a leash. WTF?


You are lucky they didn't taser you to death like in the Vancouver airport. In an over populated, resource constrained world, we can all expect fewer freedoms, more rules and less dignity. I don't agree with it but that seems to be the reality.

I agree with the other posters that there lots of imaginative ways to have fun with this. I'll offer a few more. Feign deafness, feign a siezure, be really nice and then at the last minute tell them to F**K off under your breath- then feign Tourette syndrome. Ask them how their Mom is. Pretend that you know her. Distract them by reporting an imaginary crime upriver etc. Use your imagination and have fun!
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 13:35:49

Out in the country we shoot dogs if they attack or threaten any livestock or people. But my dogs run free 24/7 and haven't been shot yet. I did lose one dog years ago when it started killing my neighbors chickens.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 21:53:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') drove for an hour to get as far away from people as possible. I was having a nice walk along the trail. The animal was having fun, sniffing about and swimming. Then a bureaucrat in a gunboat came full-throttle out of nowhere, swooped in and bullhorned me, commanding me to put the pet on a leash. WTF?


You are lucky they didn't taser you to death like in the Vancouver airport. In an over populated, resource constrained world, we can all expect fewer freedoms, more rules and less dignity. I don't agree with it but that seems to be the reality.

I agree with the other posters that there lots of imaginative ways to have fun with this. I'll offer a few more. Feign deafness, feign a siezure, be really nice and then at the last minute tell them to F**K off under your breath- then feign Tourette syndrome. Ask them how their Mom is. Pretend that you know her. Distract them by reporting an imaginary crime upriver etc. Use your imagination and have fun!


Too funny! Another possibility would be pretending that you're not from the area - you're visiting, or you just moved there and don't know the rules. Practice a different accent!
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 22:06:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I') always carry a slip-on lead when hiking with my dog. She is trustworthy around people but responds quite vigorously if challenged by another animal. The problem I have is that the challenges usually come from the little dogs like the terriers and she spares them no quarter. She hasn't injured any dog, but people tend to get very upset .


My new puppy (now 9 months old) is a larger breed, a collie/shepherd ? who-knows-what cross. She loves other dogs, just wants to play. She has been bitten on the nose by a daschund and a lot of times it's the smaller dogs that are not friendly. However, she was attacked by a pit-bull cross near our city home recently. She was on leash at the time but the other dog was not. Luckily, she wriggled out of her collar and ran down the alley away from the dog and the owner appeared and picked up his dog.

One of the unfortunate side effects of constantly restraining dogs that most owners are completely unaware of is that it actually increases the likelihood of lethal confrontations between animals.

When left to their own devices, dogs have a hierarchical social structure virtually identical to that of wolves. Normally an initial interaction between two strange dogs involves a brief 'scrap' where one animal quickly establishes dominance over the other, with the submissive animal going 'belly up' to the other in a display of that submissiveness. Once the order of dominance is established the two usually get along just fine.

Unfortunately what typically happens nowadays is the dog owners endeavor to prevent the animals from engaging in this instinctive hierarchy establishment, and the result is that a grudge develops between the animals where if given the opportunity, they will actually try to kill one another. Thwarted often enough and the animals will become permanently 'murderous' toward other dogs.

Drives me nuts that most dog owners I see today seem to make little if any effort to understand the natural behavior of dogs, nor do they make any effort to learn the proper way to train them. An 'uncontrollable' animal is the fault of the owner, not of the dog. Always.


Umm...okay. I believe in the situation I described above, my dog was following her instincts, which told her to RUN! I don't know the other dog's history at all, but it was loose and as soon as it saw us turn the corner in the alley, it ran like a bullet for a few hundred feet and was all over my dog. Could be the breed, could be the dog's temperament, could be the way it has been treated. Some dogs just don't like other dogs, TWilliam. If you talk to people who work in an animal shelter or who foster dogs for rescue societies, they will tell you that some dogs have to be an only dog in a family, whereas other dogs thrive on being one or two or three adopted by a family.

I believe dogs need to run freely sometimes. I have always jogged and walked with my dogs on leash, and they all enjoyed that, but they still need to run freely - which is why I would be an advocate of letting dogs off leash in any situation that I deemed safe for them, as long as I felt quite sure that the dog would not harm any person or other animal, of course.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 13:12:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'U')mm...okay. I believe in the situation I described above, my dog was following her instincts, which told her to RUN! I don't know the other dog's history at all, but it was loose and as soon as it saw us turn the corner in the alley, it ran like a bullet for a few hundred feet and was all over my dog. Could be the breed, could be the dog's temperament, could be the way it has been treated. Some dogs just don't like other dogs, TWilliam. If you talk to people who work in an animal shelter or who foster dogs for rescue societies, they will tell you that some dogs have to be an only dog in a family, whereas other dogs thrive on being one or two or three adopted by a family.

I used to train dogs, WildRose. What the shelter folks say is correct to a point, but it is only part of the story. It's a matter of how the animal is socialized, which again is a function of human input. For example, animals raised as guard/protection dogs are selected early and raised with minimal 'friendly' interaction with both dogs and other humans, apart from their initial handler. Please don't misunderstand: they're not abused, simply restricted. This capitalizes on their natural protective instincts. However, it does not make them 'vicious'. They are taught to distinguish threatening from non-threatening human action and to adjust their response accordingly, being only as aggressive as necessary to neutralize the threat. They will also desist once that threat is neutralized.

Some breeds, such as the pit you mentioned, have been bred to accentuate their aggressive traits. Pits as a breed were of course developed as fighters, but while that tendency can be brought to the fore, it can also be suppressed, again depending on how an individual animal is raised. I've known several folks with pits that were perfectly docile and friendly with strange dogs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') believe dogs need to run freely sometimes. I have always jogged and walked with my dogs on leash, and they all enjoyed that, but they still need to run freely - which is why I would be an advocate of letting dogs off leash in any situation that I deemed safe for them, as long as I felt quite sure that the dog would not harm any person or other animal, of course.

Certainly they do, and if properly trained they will never endanger another person or animal. Well-and-properly-trained animals are always immediately responsive to their owner/handler, on or off leash. Sadly, few owners nowadays invest in such training.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby davep » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 13:23:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'W')ell-and-properly-trained animals are always immediately responsive to their owner/handler, on or off leash. Sadly, few owners nowadays invest in such training.


That depends on the breed. We bought a Maremma in Italy, and like the good citizens we are, took her to training classes. The first thing the trainer said was 'Good luck, you'll need it'.

These dogs are bred to be independent and protect the herd. They understand perfectly what you say but only respond positively if they think it's the right thing to do themselves.

You could indoctrinate it to obey you (as was done with my sister-in-law's anatolian shepherd), but you're essentially going against their instincts (and it works out very expensive). I guess the answer is not to get a livestock guardian dog if you want a subservient pooch.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby WildRose » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 18:19:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'W')ell-and-properly-trained animals are always immediately responsive to their owner/handler, on or off leash. Sadly, few owners nowadays invest in such training.


That depends on the breed. We bought a Maremma in Italy, and like the good citizens we are, took her to training classes. The first thing the trainer said was 'Good luck, you'll need it'.

These dogs are bred to be independent and protect the herd. They understand perfectly what you say but only respond positively if they think it's the right thing to do themselves.

You could indoctrinate it to obey you (as was done with my sister-in-law's anatolian shepherd), but you're essentially going against their instincts (and it works out very expensive). I guess the answer is not to get a livestock guardian dog if you want a subservient pooch.


I wish you could have met my German Shepherd. We had her for 16 years. She didn't like other dogs much but became more tolerant of them as she matured. In hindsight, she didn't have a lot of socialization with other dogs, so I know that was part of the problem. With people, however, she was calm, obedient, absolutely lovely to have around. I could let her off leash and she never went more than maybe 50 feet away from me; if she turned around and I made eye contact with her, she'd run right back. She never had any formal training at all; everything she learned was just from being immersed in family life, having long daily walks, going on holidays with us, etc. I believe she was just a really gentle soul and we were lucky to find her.

Our current puppy is a little more challenging, and it's because of hereditary influences. Her parents lived way up north, in a community where dogs aren't looked after much, and her mom actually had a rough start to life. Our pup was born not trusting people a whole lot because that was what her mom experienced. So, we're working with her and she has come a long way in the 7 months we've had her with us. Dogs have unique personalities; some require lots of training and patience and others are a breeze. I think the majority of dogs are basically friendly or at least tolerant around people and other dogs. You have to know the animal.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 19:00:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') drove for an hour to get as far away from people as possible. I was having a nice walk along the trail. The animal was having fun, sniffing about and swimming. Then a bureaucrat in a gunboat came full-throttle out of nowhere, swooped in and bullhorned me, commanding me to put the pet on a leash. WTF?


Lol, I've been avoiding this thread. Thought it was about pet euthanasia (Down By the River, Neil Young song)
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 22:40:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'W')ell-and-properly-trained animals are always immediately responsive to their owner/handler, on or off leash. Sadly, few owners nowadays invest in such training.


That depends on the breed. We bought a Maremma in Italy, and like the good citizens we are, took her to training classes. The first thing the trainer said was 'Good luck, you'll need it'.

These dogs are bred to be independent and protect the herd. They understand perfectly what you say but only respond positively if they think it's the right thing to do themselves.

You could indoctrinate it to obey you (as was done with my sister-in-law's anatolian shepherd), but you're essentially going against their instincts (and it works out very expensive). I guess the answer is not to get a livestock guardian dog if you want a subservient pooch.

German Shepherds are considered to be one of the most intelligent, versatile and trainable breeds, which is why they're still one of the top selections for advanced protection work. The Belgian Malinois, a.k.a. Belgian Shepherd, is another breed used in similar capacities. They're both still used for guarding flocks as well.

Anyway I never said that different breeds don't provide different challenges, and of course some temperaments are easier to train than others, but I've yet to encounter a breed that was completely un-trainable. It's largely a matter of learning to work with the animal's natural tendencies and most importantly being consistent with the application of both positive feedback and correction for misbehavior. Huskies and Malamutes are two more breeds that are exceedingly independent as well as headstrong, but they are perfectly trainable. It just requires dedication and a clear understanding of their natures.

Oh, and a significant portion of effective dog training (possibly even a majority of it) lies in training the owner to handle the animal correctly. 'Operator error' is at the root of most dog behavioral problems. Most people don't even know that you should never use an animal's name when attempting to correct misbehavior... :roll:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I') wish you could have met my German Shepherd.

My very first dog was a fully pedigreed German Shepherd. One of my sisters got him for me on my first birthday. They've always been my favorite breed. Extremely loving, protective and intelligent... :)
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 22:54:08

I have what I think is probably a coon hound. I was told she was a beagle when I got her as a pup, but she's gotten way too big to be a beagle. She's a great dog, white and lemon colored.

But I CAN'T let her off the leash, ever. I've made the mistake of playing a chasing game with her in the yard, so now if she gets out of the house it's just one big game of "chase me down the street."

She's two years old now.. it would be nice to not have to be on constant watch as far her not getting out of the house, or god forbid I drop the leash or she slips out of it.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 24 Jun 2009, 23:28:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') have what I think is probably a coon hound. I was told she was a beagle when I got her as a pup, but she's gotten way too big to be a beagle. She's a great dog, white and lemon colored.

But I CAN'T let her off the leash, ever. I've made the mistake of playing a chasing game with her in the yard, so now if she gets out of the house it's just one big game of "chase me down the street."

She's two years old now.. it would be nice to not have to be on constant watch as far her not getting out of the house, or god forbid I drop the leash or she slips out of it.

Two is not too late for basic obedience training, Sixstrings (tho' of course the younger the better; training can even start as early as seven weeks). It will likely require some extra effort tho'. Believe me, it's well worth the investment, both in time and money.

If you can, find someone who follows Matthew Margolis' National Institute of Dog Training methodology. Margolis has been training dogs since 1968 and his methods are well-proven. Sit-stay is one of the primary foundations of basic obedience and a fundamental tool for correcting many forms of misbehavior.
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Re: Took My Pet Down By The River This Weekend

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Thu 25 Jun 2009, 09:19:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
If you can, find someone who follows Matthew Margolis' National Institute of Dog Training methodology. Margolis has been training dogs since 1968 and his methods are well-proven. Sit-stay is one of the primary foundations of basic obedience and a fundamental tool for correcting many forms of misbehavior.


I agree. Dog training is essential to having a positive relationship with your dog. The dog wants to please you but needs to be taught how. It is a great bonding experience to get to know how to meet each others expectations.
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