[paimei01]

Look at Wikipedia. Search "Gift Economy". See how all those people that write those articles do it because they like it. Nobody pays them for it. The same way you can look at this forum. They want to contribute to something , to be part of something, to be appreciated by others from that community. At the same time they are totally free. But they obey the rules of that community, and they stay there because they like it. That was how a tribe was like. Now it can be the same for a country for example. That is what people really seek, what I underlined above.

Nobody wants to destroy the planet mining for oil in the tar sands. People who like to destroy the land as a hobby - haven't seen yet. They don't do it because they like to, they don't do it for "the progress of civilization". They only do it for money. No money - they don't care if you have gas or not for your car. The only thing they are allowed to obtain in this capitalist economy. And with money they try to obtain all the things I said above.

People can be like that again -as a country or as a planet. And there is no need to renounce what we know and the things that make life easy. It's about a way of life not about technology. No more money. Make people cooperate to obtain the basic things like food and clothes. That is very little work for all, including maintaining and building the machines that do the work, people work in turns. Say you work for 4 years then you are replaced and then you have food and clothes for free for the rest of your life. Today 0.6% work in farming in USA. 0.6% of the workforce not population.

Then people will be free to create a gift economy. Free to do what they like and gather with others that like the same. Let's say some like science. They gather in a science group. Anybody is welcome to join, not like today. Any help is appreciated. The entire world can join that society if they like. The basics are taken care of trough that 4 year period of work, then people are free. Also anyone is free to leave such a society if he gets bored. Not like the jobs of today. He does not depend on them for survival.

These societies share their results - knowledge, stuff they build with others, also because they want to contribute to something and be appreciated. Nobody forces them to share or not tho share. I see such a world as a true free world. "Free time" means real freedom. "Freedom to vote" is a joke. This is how I imagine advanced alien civilizations to be, if they exist. Also the environmental damage would be at 10% of today. Nobody would take from nature more than he needs because there is no way to sell it. Anyway in time people would look with disgust at such things as "selling" or making another work for you. Having the basics nobody would be willing to work with someone else for something unless he wants to, and does it for pleasure of to obtain that thing he works for. No way to force him.

In a tribe of Sioux nobody told another what to do, that was very rude.
Imagine someone telling you what to post here, in this "forum gift economy"...And paying you for it and conditioning your survival on writing what he wants. No longer fun, no longer doing it because you like to..Not how life should be.

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter6-4.php
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey know that there is a way the world is supposed to be, and a magnificent role for themselves in that more beautiful world. Broken to the lesser lives we offer them, they react with hostility, rage, cynicism, depression, escapism, or self-destruction—all the defining qualities of modern adolescence. Then we blame them for not bringing these qualities under control, and when they finally have given up their idealism we call them mature. Having given up their idealism, they can get on with the business of survival: practicality and security, comfort and safety, which is what we are left with in the absence of purpose. So we suggest they major in something practical, stay out of trouble, don't take risks, build a résumé. We think we are practical and wise in the ways of the world. Really we are just broken and afraid. We are afraid on their behalf, and, less nobly, we are afraid of what their idealism shows us: the plunder and betrayal of our own youthful possibilities.

[mos6507]

Good luck selling that concept to J6P.

[Arsenal]

Work hard for 4 years and then have all the necessities for the rest of your life. Sounds just like something J6P would jump on. Or you could just barely work in a dead end job for 50 years and still not even have what you need for the rest of your life. It could work but you would have to have a total global reset in order for it to happen and even then human greed is a hard thing to stamp out.

[TWilliam]

One of the problems I see with the concept of a gift economy is that there are tasks that are necessary to perform that, frankly, few if any actually like to do. Anyone who has ever lived in a household with more than a few people knows this. Everybody likes to eat, but it seems few people like to wash dishes, or take out the trash. And that's now, with indoor plumbing and garbage pickup. How many fewer people will be enthusiastic about such chores when the water has to be hauled from a spring or raised from a well, and when taking out the trash involves having to sort it and stir it into various compost piles?

It's relatively easy to 'gift' one's time to a forum or a wiki. Not quite so easy to 'gift' several hours of hard, sweaty labor to plowing a field. There are some folks where I live that are attempting to form a 'labor co-op' where members exchange time rather than money, where 'I give you an hour of my time, you give me an hour of your time' and everything's all nice and equitable. This is supposed to eliminate the 'inequity of pay scale' because 'everyone's labor is worth the same', but I see a flaw in this idea, because everyone's labor isn't worth the same, if you look at it from a calorie expended perspective. You babysitting my cat for a day is not worth the same as me weeding your garden for a day. I'm going to have to work much more to replace the calories I expended than you will to replace those you expended.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'e')ven then human greed is a hard thing to stamp out.

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'G')ood luck selling that concept to J6P.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'G')ood luck selling that concept to J6P.

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'G')ood luck selling that concept to J6P.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '
')Same with my household and our friends and neighbors, Ludi. But with everyone, all the time? No thanks.

Umber

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '
')Same with my household and our friends and neighbors, Ludi. But with everyone, all the time? No thanks.

Umber

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '
')
Your experience might lead you to a different conclusion.

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '
')
Your experience might lead you to a different conclusion.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '
')There are times I wish I didn't.

Umber