[paimei01]

What do you say about this job ?

If someone paid you for it, a lot more than your current job pays, would you do that ? 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. You can chose to work with a shovel or an excavator, the size does not matter. It can be the same hole, or a different one, this also does not matter, you still have to be 8 hours at the job.

I answered Yes. Trying to prove that "Competing for work" is a crazy concept that only indoctrinated slaves can accept as rational. I consider myself free from indoctrination (?) but still have to survive, and a better paying "job" is "good". Nothing will change if I "escape the system" go to a monastery or try surviving with no job.

Remember - the indoctrination says "no job" = "useless person".

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

[MD]

Only if in the Army.

[paimei01]

"Competing for food" I kind of understand that. But in that case, the people competing (if free) will say "hey, let's work together on this, easier for all of us, if one day I have food, I share, if one day I don't have but you have you share. As a group of smart people. As a tribe-group of friends.

What is that "to compete for work" ? Possible only if people no longer have direct access to food, so they compete to serve a slave master that will feed them. Not even the slave master has direct access to food...
Some who now got to "own" the land have direct access. People are separated and enslave themselves. What does the majority - that owns no good land do ? Read the post above. But it's worse than digging holes, they are turning the planet into trash.

Now only 3% of the workforce works in agriculture in developed nations. What does a tribe do if they find a magical well where there is plenty of food ? Only one well, kind of small, they can't all be near it because there is no room. And this tribe also has a nice truck. Smart people will take turns driving the truck to the well and back to the village. They all get free time to obtain whatever more they want besides food.

Separated slave people will be like us - some will bring the truck, but others will not be allowed to eat unless they waste their lives 40 hours a week producing garbage. And they compete for that "useful job" that "makes them happy".

To compare with Peak Oil :
Not only that but they use what they find in the well to produce trash. More and more trash. To trade for the food some of them get out of the well. And because their numbers are growing, more and more trash and food is produced. And because there is no real need for all the trash - now consuming 90% of what they get from the well, some of them are left with no food ! They are "potential competitors anyway" or they are not working enough ! And because there are more and more people, a competition for the resources in the well begins, a fight to produce more and more trash and a fight about who has access to the resources for that trash they need to make - to trade for food...

Also they are kind of brainwashed, calling the ones not producing trash "useless"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

[Aaron]

No way.

The things we do & think become part of who we are.

Live in abject poverty or dig meaningless holes?

Sure

Selling your potential for more money is an anathema.

[paimei01]

Most people do it, they just don't realize they are producing trash. Some realize and plan for the things they produce to break down so they can work more and more to produce new stuff. They need to do that else they get no food.

[Grautr]

Have you tried digging by hand 8 hours a day? I did quite a bit on footings and drainage trenches. It is seriously hard work and even though I've worked physicly all my life I dont think I could keep up with it now.

Its a young mans job only.

[mattduke]

The division of labor has progressed to the point that people are confused about why they work. On the desert island, you work to produce the food you eat. When labor is divided, you work at what you are best at, and trade for the produce of others. Your scenario of being paid to perform a worthless task is useless. If 1 + 1 = 3 could pigs fly? Beginning with false axioms will lead you to false conclusions. People will only pay you to perform tasks that are desireable.

[Umber]

Dig holes, refill holes. Do this for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Reminds me of putting a raised bed vegetable garden in when the soil is heavy clay.

In answer to the question... no, I would not be interested in a job like that even though I love digging by hand with a shovel. I'd much rather continue my craft of blacksmithing/bladesmithing... IF I ever get my new shop set up, that is.

Umber

[Caffeine]

You could get people to pay money to do this job if you market it as a weight-loss program.

Incidentally, the presentation on that Story of Stuff website is quite good.

[hardtootell-2]

Only if I was ordered to by the commandant of the FEMA camp I was imprisoned in.


It would be more meaningful than some off the mind numbing "white collar welfare" jobs I have seen.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', 'D')ig holes, refill holes. Do this for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Reminds me of putting a raised bed vegetable garden in when the soil is heavy clay.

In answer to the question... no, I would not be interested in a job like that even though I love digging by hand with a shovel. I'd much rather continue my craft of blacksmithing/bladesmithing... IF I ever get my new shop set up, that is.

Umber

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', 'D')ig holes, refill holes. Do this for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Reminds me of putting a raised bed vegetable garden in when the soil is heavy clay.

In answer to the question... no, I would not be interested in a job like that even though I love digging by hand with a shovel. I'd much rather continue my craft of blacksmithing/bladesmithing... IF I ever get my new shop set up, that is.

Umber

[Quinny]

It's actually reminded me of a major issue that I had with conventional Keynesian economics when first introduced to it 30 odd years ago.

It was explained that it was better to pay people to dig holes and others to fill them in than leave people idle in a recession. My argument then and now was it was a waste of resources as well as time and that the world had limits. I was laughed at for suggesting that there were practical limits.

[davep]

I'd dig the holes.

As it is, I don't do my job for love, but for the money. I have to travel more than 1000km every weekend and I earn in excess of $150k.

Give me 8 hours a day digging holes near home for more than that, any day. I'd have more time to deal with the doomstead, more cash and more time with my family.

[paimei01]

Maybe I said it wrong :

Would you do the job you like if at the end of each day all that you produced was thrown in the garbage or destroyed ?

I say it again, most jobs are useless , only turning the planet into garbage because people are forced to do something (whatever, logic is not important) to get money to survive.

See the new houses sitting empty while people compete for work to build more new houses, and other people sit in tents and they to would like to find a job at building anything, no matter what. Because they would like money to buy a house ! Meanwhile new houses just sit there, everywhere...

[paimei01]

Just found the perfect example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The Luddites were a social movement of British textile artisans in the early nineteenth century who protested—often by destroying mechanized looms—against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution, which they felt were leaving them without work.

[mos6507]

I find critiques of the status quo that don't contain viable suggestions to be rather pointless. Not only that, but so many people in this economy would give anything for any sort of shit job to pay the bills that philosophical essays damning the entire concept of work seems positively obscene and disconnected from the reality of day to day survival.

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') find critiques of the status quo that don't contain viable suggestions to be rather pointless. Not only that, but so many people in this economy would give anything for any sort of shit job to pay the bills that philosophical essays damning the entire concept of work seems positively obscene and disconnected from the reality of day to day survival.

[MarkJ]

We'd gladly dig & fill holes for substantially more than our current labor and equipment rental rates.

5 day 40 hour work weeks would allow plenty of time for more enjoyable or satisfying work, hobbies and recreation for our employees.



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