PeakOil is You
The Psychology of Self Sufficency
Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by dunewalker » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 11:55:46
Not pointing fingers at any particular poster, but generally there seems to be almost a Pavlovian response that "pure self-sufficiency" is impossible. This may be true, but it is over-emphasized. The pendulum of American culture has swung so far to the extreme opposite of self-sufficiency that there is no danger of over-achieving in this regard. Even the most extremely self-sufficient attitude/intent obviously will fall short to some degree, but the effort doesn't need belittling, it needs more encouragement. There is almost universal dismissal of the "heading back into the wilderness" approach. Being an idealist I tend to strive for the extreme result in any endeavor but being also a realist I'm willing to settle for the merely possible. To claim that "pure self-sufficiency is impossible" is a defeatist attitude. I'll look forward to sharing efforts, when push comes to shove, with folks like SCF and Patience who have gotten a lot closer than most. Shared efforts work best when team members are prepared.
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by hardtootell-2 » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 12:10:57
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he point being that the easy way would be to drive along to the exhaust centre and get it fixed, by using the DIY philosophy I've cut my costs significantly and more importantly learnt how it works.
That's a good point.
I have my moments of self-sufficient discovery fixing plumbing, roofing, making stuff out of wood, etc. I'm more of a natural mechanic - nuts/bolts - type than a creative mind/building something out of a pile of 'nothing'.
I am repeatedly shocked by my peers (meaning men my age) inability to do stuff for themselves. Even changing the oil on their own car, brake pads, putting in a new 110VAC electrical outlet, fixing a clogged drain, fixing a gutter, etc.
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I agree and have seen it too. It is shocking to see an intelligent grown man who can barely change a lightbulb or check his oil. So much affluence (credit driven) has resulted in a loss of skills. People wont even try to do simple things for themselves. They are increasingly vulnerable in that regard.
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by SpringCreekFarm » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 12:19:04
Yes it is defeatist to say that total self-sufficiency is impossible but honestly it really and truly is. Especially if you consider that the real pioneers of years past had a clean environment to live off of. Nowadays our environment is so polluted that trying to follow in those footsteps can make you sick or kill you. I agree that it will take many people trying to be self-sufficient to form communities that are self-reliant. I'd rather it be that way anyway because I'd not like to be the "Grizzly Adams" type. We need communites to be self-sufficient.
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by hillsidedigger » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 12:27:06
In another sense self-sufficiency after a point is easy for a year, 5 years or even 20 years if enough stuff is accumulated initially, although that could cost a lot including the land and a dwelling.
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by Pops » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 15:46:28
Good stuff on this page, let me address this to the folks intent on dissuading others from striving for some measure of self sufficiency.
I often wonder at the near anger which greets any poster here who mentions trying to be more self-sufficient, a term I take to simply mean less dependent.
It's as if the idea is to go live on the moon - isn't that tactic called a straw man argument?
I think most reasonable people who have read enough on the subject of PO to be convinced of it's possibility have an idea in the back of their head how more expensive and/or less available energy could change their life. Those changes probably have to do with all the Things and Services provided in one way or another by the energy slaves we've become so use to lately. Making changes of whatever kind and extent before they become scarce seems prudent.
Planting a garden, buying gold or bonds, harvesting rainwater, going back to school, weatherizing your house, angling for a better job, buying a bike, learning to make repairs, installing a roof-full of PVs and a million other things are all strategies we rich world citizens can use to become a tiny bit less dependent on our ubiquitous cheap energy infrastructure.
So instead of yet another pointless argument over whether complete and TOTAL independence from any other human, human invention/discovery/by-product or castoff of the last several thousand years is possible, why not talk about the psychology of why and or how you aren't or are, trying to become less dependent on cheap oil?
I often wonder at the near anger which greets any poster here who mentions trying to be more self-sufficient, a term I take to simply mean less dependent.
It's as if the idea is to go live on the moon - isn't that tactic called a straw man argument?
I think most reasonable people who have read enough on the subject of PO to be convinced of it's possibility have an idea in the back of their head how more expensive and/or less available energy could change their life. Those changes probably have to do with all the Things and Services provided in one way or another by the energy slaves we've become so use to lately. Making changes of whatever kind and extent before they become scarce seems prudent.
Planting a garden, buying gold or bonds, harvesting rainwater, going back to school, weatherizing your house, angling for a better job, buying a bike, learning to make repairs, installing a roof-full of PVs and a million other things are all strategies we rich world citizens can use to become a tiny bit less dependent on our ubiquitous cheap energy infrastructure.
So instead of yet another pointless argument over whether complete and TOTAL independence from any other human, human invention/discovery/by-product or castoff of the last several thousand years is possible, why not talk about the psychology of why and or how you aren't or are, trying to become less dependent on cheap oil?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by Roy » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 16:01:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ust wondering -- how did you learn how to "do that stuff" originally? Did you have a relative or friend teach you how to fix stuff, or did you just get the manual and figure out stuff yourself? (These days, it's amazing how useless manuals often are.)
No problem.
My dad liked to restore old cars while I was growing up. But he wasn't interested in having an apprentice. When I would help as a kid it involved me either scraping gaskets, sorting bolts, or sanding something. None of the fun stuff. Besides he always got mad when he did that type of work so I learned to stay out of the garage mostly if he was working on something. Often wrenches and curse words would be flying and hammers banging. Not really an ideal learning environment.
When I started my own projects I would ask for help and he would say:" Help? Read the f'ng manual" and then he'd tell me a story about the first engine he rebuilt.... You know, uphill three miles through 5 feet of snow, barefoot... That type of thing.
I didn't realize it at the time but he helped me learn how to learn and not be intimidated by something mechanical (within reason-- no jet aircraft in my repertoire). For some people doing is the best way of learning and I'm one of those people.
Over time an ability develops to sort of figure things out, mainly from practice and understanding basic principals. I started with bicycles, skateboards, go carts, mini-bikes, fishing reels, motorcycles, cars, high performance cars, high end mountain bikes, a rice mill, a super-critical fluid extraction unit, troubleshooting fiber optic cable installations, you name it.
Now its servers and networks to make a living, when I'm not fixing stuff at the house.
That general skill has served me well in many different jobs and opened many a door. Not to mention saved lots of $$ and provided a great deal of satisfaction as well as some busted knuckles and grease under my fingernails.
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by Pops » Wed 10 Jun 2009, 16:59:14
5 Rules is one of my favorite threads in PFTF because it goes right to different outlooks, some are Zen-like (I guess) some Golden Ruleish, some, like mine, are nuts and bolts.
I'm also one of those people who are Handy, which simply means I figured out way back that odds are good that I'll not screw something up so bad it will cost me more to have my mistakes repaired than call a "pro". Obviously that and the fact my hobbies are of the hands-on/making things type make me lean toward a DIY lifestyle as opposed to that of a commodities trader for example, not a better position necessarily, just one better suited to me..
Just as an example, I have some little savings spread around in several IRAs and it gives me really no piece of mind. It is in cash and worth much less than it once was but at least I know what it will be worth at the next statement but like all savings once it is unsaved it's gone.
It may seem strange to some but my little tractor with 1200-something hours on it makes me feel much more... secure (?) than it's value in cash of whatever type.
Any and all of my tools (along with my few skills) are worth many times their original value in what they can save me by doing things myself and what they can earn me doing for others. I'm not talking about in some Mad Max future but today.
So as it turns out I am more self sufficient than if I relied solely on a job and the marketplace to provide all my needs
I'm also one of those people who are Handy, which simply means I figured out way back that odds are good that I'll not screw something up so bad it will cost me more to have my mistakes repaired than call a "pro". Obviously that and the fact my hobbies are of the hands-on/making things type make me lean toward a DIY lifestyle as opposed to that of a commodities trader for example, not a better position necessarily, just one better suited to me..
Just as an example, I have some little savings spread around in several IRAs and it gives me really no piece of mind. It is in cash and worth much less than it once was but at least I know what it will be worth at the next statement but like all savings once it is unsaved it's gone.
It may seem strange to some but my little tractor with 1200-something hours on it makes me feel much more... secure (?) than it's value in cash of whatever type.
Any and all of my tools (along with my few skills) are worth many times their original value in what they can save me by doing things myself and what they can earn me doing for others. I'm not talking about in some Mad Max future but today.
So as it turns out I am more self sufficient than if I relied solely on a job and the marketplace to provide all my needs
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: The Psychology of Self Sufficency
by SpringCreekFarm » Thu 11 Jun 2009, 09:50:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'G')ood stuff on this page, let me address this to the folks intent on dissuading others from striving for some measure of self sufficiency.
I often wonder at the near anger which greets any poster here who mentions trying to be more self-sufficient, a term I take to simply mean less dependent.
It's as if the idea is to go live on the moon - isn't that tactic called a straw man argument?
I often wonder at the near anger which greets any poster here who mentions trying to be more self-sufficient, a term I take to simply mean less dependent.
It's as if the idea is to go live on the moon - isn't that tactic called a straw man argument?
Well if you're referring to my post then please accept my most humble apology for being not only defeatist but also for throwing up a strawman to boot.
I would not ever dissuade anyone from trying to be more self-sufficient in fact it is what I'm mostly on this site for....solutions to the elusive self-sufficient lifestyle.
For those who believe like Polyanna or the "the little train that could" that anything is possible, I say go for it and when you have all the answers, please write a book and tell us all how you are going to to it and keep it when you do get there. Thanks, I'm all eyes and ears, callouses, cuts and bruises to boot.
PS. I consider myself to be a doer....btw.
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