[hardtootell-2]

IMHO self-sufficiency and peak oil are closely related. In order to be able to truly accept what peakoil will eventually mean, one must embrace self sufficency as a lifestyle or ideal.

rant on-

I say that we have been slaves for so long that we have forgotten what freedom is. Everyday at mindless, meaningless jobs to enrich the upper class and often destroy the worlds resource base.

There was a time when it was considered shameful among merchants and journeymen to have a job and work for someone else. We have forgotten that we are masters of our own destiny. We need to get control of our own expenses and drive them as close to zero as possible! We need to grow as much of our food and fuel as possible.

We all should know by now that most government is too corrupt and or incompetent to help us- they are only there to help themselves.

Self sufficiency is a positive, proactive response to the darker doom mentality that can sometimes lead to despair. Our society keeps us chained by engendering a psychology of learned helplessness- "what can I do?"

We need to be in control of our own sources of income and wealth. We need to own fundamental measures of wealth like precious metals, land, trees, water and ariable land. We need to learn all manner of old skills (gardening, repair, building etc) and new technology (medicine, electrical technologies etc) to help us take care of our selves and our children.

Especially in a world where overpopulation, resource depletion and corruption are increasingly destroying the status quo!

rant off

I invite your thoughts.

[rangerone314]

I'm not sure the specialization our society is based in can be replaced by everyone being generalists, even very smart generalists...

[hardtootell-2]

I agree. IMHO-Our society is in decline. The central authorities are corrupt/incompetant. We are long past our "can-do" peak which probably occurred during the Apollo space program. If it is possible to form intentional communities full of specialists with broad general knowledge that would be a way to go. I just don't see it happening yet. The community I moved to does not have a doctor. The government controls this and has failed to plan.

I hope to drive my own self sufficiency as hard as I can and hope it inspires and attracts others.

[Aaron]

Our government is bad... in context maybe not as bad as it seems on first blush though.

We must also consider what it replaced to have a clear yardstick for measuring it's sucess or failure.


Is slavery bad?

Not cmpared to what it replaced it isn't.

[hardtootell-2]

Huh?

Is slavery bad?

I guess there are certain lifestyle choices that people make

Who am I to judge- Master?

[hillsidedigger]

Full self-sufficiency for anyone is almost impossible much less for the masses.

Still, each can do more, much more, to provide for themselves.

For starters, prepare your own food from basic ingredients. This still requires shopping at food stores for many items (for those who grow no food of their own and almost no one grows all their own food) but it is so much less expensive and less wasteful than eating out or buying packaged and processed food.

Learn to buy in bulk and store food to minimize the number of commutes to the food store.

[mos6507]

In theory I see nothing wrong for working for others. It's all part of community, really. It's not necessary to cast all employer/employee relationships as oppressive. I mean, there is a difference between being a waiter at the locally owned pub down the street and a drone at Wal-Mart. In a relocalized future I don't see why you can't still have employers and employees. The idea that everyone will freelance their own jobs is unrealistic. There is something to be said for clocking in and out each day and not having to stress out over the minutiae of running a business.

[hardtootell-2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', 'F')ull self-sufficiency for anyone is almost impossible much less for the masses.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '
')I agree that the masses will remain enslaved- until they starve to death

[hardtootell-2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '
')I agree that the masses will remain enslaved- until they starve to death

[dunewalker]

Hardtootell-2, you're one of the few who frequent this site that gets it--really gets it. H.D. Thoreau wrote extensively on this very concept.

[hardtootell-2]

thanks Dune- I think

Thoreau was a great thinker( in so far as an ordinary person like me can understand him). As I understand it he was a great influence to Gandhi and in turn to Martin Luther King Jr.

It seems as though his writings are falling on the deaf ears of our contemporaries.
Alot of the retro-European Christian sects (Mennonites, Hutterites, Amish) have achieved self sufficiency for a lot of the same reasons I believe.

[dunewalker]

The impressive thing about Thoreau is that even in a relatively simple world he understood the value of simplicity. In a much smaller world of people he understood the value of freedom, even while the opportunities for freedom were so much larger than they are now. He understood that simplicity, self-sufficiency were the paths to freedom and that complexity, dependence were the route to general slavery.

[patience]

RE: Job vs Self Employed.
I've been on both sides of this. A job is the easy way to make a living, if that's all you want to accomplish, and assuming you can FIND a job.

Self employed means that I have as many bosses as I have customers-THEY are the boss. If you forget that, you won't be in business very long.

Self sufficiency is a bit different than just self employed. I have been a student of what I might call self reliant lifestyles for some time, and have a goodly number of Amish customers and friends. In today's world, the Amish are more dependent on "English" society than one might think, particularly for manufactured goods. They use kerosene lamps, gasoline engines to pump water, run a washing machine, and grind feed. Most hire a driver and vehicle for longer trips, and many have telephones, although most have them in the barn or a shed. The use the postal system, mail order a lot of things, and buy cloth to make their own clothing.

So, in order to discuss self sufficiency, one needs to define what that means for the sake of the discussion. Early American pioneer style self sufficiency is undoubedly out of the question for most of the US population, but maybe still could be done, given the right place and enough resources to acquire enough land and other things. I am a pretty good woodworker (made a business of it many years ago), a decent engineer, and a good machinist with a childhood on a farm. We raise a lot of food, I fix our own stuff, made most of our furniture, I am self employed, out of debt, and still a very long way from self sufficiency, as I define it.

Regarding the voluntary simplicity thing, I found Thoreau somewhat disingenuous, having been tossed into jail for something or other related to his way of life, (help me here dunewalker) and lived, IIRC, on a friend's property. But I liked his lower consumption lifestyle a lot. I think he built the tiny house himself, a credit to him, if so, but self sufficient, he was not, in my view. Daniel Boone was a lot closer to that, but then he took the land from the indians, who objected to it.

I agree that we have a society of spoon-fed spoiled brats, mostly unable to do much of anything for themselves. Hmph! If I could convince my farming customers to use more paint and grease, and put things in out of the weather, I'd be out of the repair business! The average couch potato is much worse off than them. Where do we draw the lines here? What shall we call self sufficient?

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', ' ')
Regarding the voluntary simplicity thing, I found Thoreau somewhat disingenuous, having been tossed into jail for something or other related to his way of life, (help me here dunewalker) and lived, IIRC, on a friend's property. But I liked his lower consumption lifestyle a lot. I think he built the tiny house himself, a credit to him, if so, but self sufficient, he was not, in my view. Daniel Boone was a lot closer to that, but then he took the land from the indians, who objected to it.

[Quinny]

I've always been a generalist, sometimes giving me short term problems, but in difficult times it certainly helps. The exhaust system fell off the car the other day, fitted it would cost way over £100, ordering the specific part £40, I've bodged it together with an old bracket, some epoxy, self tappers and steel cable most of which I had anyway, but material costs were probably about £5 tops. It took me about 1/2 day to fix and it certainly seems solid enough (hope that's not famous last words). The point being that the easy way would be to drive along to the exhaust centre and get it fixed, by using the DIY philosophy I've cut my costs significantly and more importantly learnt how it works.

I know this is a simplistic example, but I believe the Psychology of Self Sufficiency is probably up there with skills in importance for the difficult times that lay ahead.

[SpringCreekFarm]

I'm not sure if this is what the OP was looking for but...


Some of us have always wanted to be a little more independent and live more self-sufficiently. It's a cool romantic idea that comes from envying the simple life of a simpler time. For others it's a mad dash to save their asses when TSHTF. The problems arise when some folks realize just how much work it is to be self-sufficient and they fail miserably because they don't have the energy or the guts. Like it has been mentioned, it is nearly immpossible to be self-sufficient and like patience noted, there are varying degrees of self-sufficiency. If people think that one day they'll run into the forest and live off the land, they will die or quickly try to go back to their other way of life. It just isn't going to happen.

The best we can do in this day and age is to try to become MORE self-sufficient instead of trying to become FULLY self-sufficient.

It can be done using small steps and like I've mentioned before, you start with the most critical items that can determine living or dying and working your way through to the items that make you most comfortable. Start with your water supply. Do you have a way of supplying yourself with potable water? Next comes food. Does it make sense to try to grow ALL your own food or do you find ways of partnering up with others and bartering. Your personal situation will help guide you. On and on you go until you are as independent as possible.

I've been at this stuff for a decade at least and have found that there are many factors that can get in your way, least of which can be how cooperative your spouse is. That is a big show stopper for me but instead of quitting or freaking out about it, you try to work around it and do the best you can. We all die someday so don't forget to try to have fun.

There will always be employers and employees as long as there are humans. Work toward independence and not toward self-sufficiency.

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he point being that the easy way would be to drive along to the exhaust centre and get it fixed, by using the DIY philosophy I've cut my costs significantly and more importantly learnt how it works.

[Quinny]

I get laughed at by neighbours and friends because of my willingness to 'get my hands dirty'. I met my friends who I used to live next to for a meal the other night and I was the standing joke because of my chicken rearing and veg growing.

'Why don't you just pay someone to do it', is the standard mantra.

I must admit I have paid people to do things that I could do in the past, but always felt slightly guilty about it. My brother has always been a fixer, and the 'gifts' he's picked up in the past have been amazing, quad bikes, computers, even a car! All fixed for a few quid!

I think total self sufficiency is going to be very difficult, but as has been said becoming 'more' self sufficient whilst co-operating with others is the key. A bit like in Cuba during their 'special time', most Havana residents were not self sufficient, but the fact they grew a lot more food for themselves, eased the pressure on a hard pressed agricultural system struggling because of embargoes etc. That coupled with their spirit of cooperation really helped them adapt. Although they lost a lot of weight during that time, not many starved.

[Caffeine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '
')
I have my moments of self-sufficient discovery fixing plumbing, roofing, making stuff out of wood, etc. I'm more of a natural mechanic - nuts/bolts - type than a creative mind/building something out of a pile of 'nothing'.

I am repeatedly shocked by my peers (meaning men my age) inability to do stuff for themselves. Even changing the oil on their own car, brake pads, putting in a new 110VAC electrical outlet, fixing a clogged drain, fixing a gutter, etc.

One of my peers gave me a very nice riding lawnmower (I hate cutting grass but needs must) because he did not know how to change the drive belt and did not want to "fool with it". A new belt was $32 and took me an hour to replace, along with sharpening all three blades; having never laid eyes on said mower and never having owned such a contraption.