[Escapist]

I heard from peakoil 3 years ago. And first I tought big deal solar, wind, hydrogen will become available and we can continue business as usual.

But now that i saw the crash course of Chris Martenson I think that I get it.

Peakoil ain't that much about finding some revolutionary new technology that can replace oil.

Peakoil is more about how fast we can replace oil with something else slowly if oil production drops by 5% a year we need to replace those 5% with something else tar sands or natural gas.

Also we have to keep continuing our economic growth otherwise the whole system falls down. so if world oil consumption grows with 1 million barrels a day, we need to replace those with another alternative.

So the big problem is how the economy works. They are trying to build the same economic model while the foundations are collapsing.

The thing that actually has to be done is rebuild the whole economic model and the way how people think. it doesn't matter what kind of alternative we invent. Even if Nuclear fusion works tomorrow.When we keep living on growth eventually it will end wether it is by the disapearing of the bees or by overfishing, global warming, overpopulation, water and food shortages, destruction of rainforests.

[wisconsin_cur]

That is a very good start.

[davep]

So we have to learn to live with less energy, eventually using only sustainable resources. No growth-based economic model can handle that. Our system as we know it will be destroyed. It's up to us to shape the future.

[Escapist]

Peakoil should become the time where people accept that we have to throw away our current economic model based on Growth debt and consuming and replace it with an economy based on Saving, sound money, and balans.

or am i wrong?

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Escapist', 'P')eakoil should become the time where people accept that we have to throw away our current economic model based on Growth debt and consuming and replace it with an economy based on Saving, sound money, and balans.

or am i wrong?

[Escapist]

yeah I have the same idea they don't listen to treehuggers often ^^

But hopefully they will understand it soon, I hate to wake up in a world someday where 90% of all the species are gone and that in 2050 i hear something in the news that the last gorilla has died in the new york zoo or something like that. assuming we can replace oil with something else and we continue business as usual.

I have my doubts that peakoil will destroy civilization entirely, it's a major factor but I think the economy is self destructing and peakoil is just a problem on top of it.

But then again humans are self destructive also so its only normal that we created a suicidal system just making some theories up here.

[kpeavey]

You've got a good grip on things. Lots of people out there who do not understand exponential growth. This is the core of the problem, and has no technical solution.

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Escapist', '
')Peakoil is more about how fast we can replace oil with something else slowly if oil production drops by 5% a year we need to replace those 5% with something else tar sands or natural gas.

Also we have to keep continuing our economic growth otherwise the whole system falls down. so if world oil consumption grows with 1 million barrels a day, we need to replace those with another alternative.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Escapist', '
')I have my doubts that peakoil will destroy civilization entirely

[outcast]

Yea! More backslapping and kool-aid drinking.

[url]peakoildebunked.blogspot.com[/url]This is better, and much closer to reality

[mos6507]

JD serves a very important role for doomers. Doomers need to hear from both extremes to decide where on the continuum they belong. I started my blog because of a post from JD telling all of us how useless doomsteading is. I don't want what JD says about it to be true, but I can't deny how compelling a lot of his logic was. My blog is in large part me trying to work out the feelings of doubt he inserted into my brain, complicated further by Toby Hemenway of all people. I don't think anyone should ever feel 100% confident in their world view. One should always allow their ideas to be challenged by devil's advocates.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ') I don't think anyone should ever feel 100% confident in their world view. One should always allow their ideas to be challenged by devil's advocates.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Escapist', 'y')eah I have the same idea they don't listen to treehuggers often ^^

But hopefully they will understand it soon, I hate to wake up in a world someday where 90% of all the species are gone and that in 2050 i hear something in the news that the last gorilla has died in the new york zoo or something like that. assuming we can replace oil with something else and we continue business as usual.

[Escapist]

But how do you define growth not all growth is bad right?

a baby that is growing is good growth
or recovery programs to regrow the rainforest or some species is also good growth
growth in solar panels is also good in my opinion.

so you can say natural growth is fine but nature can balance itself. humans is maybe the biggest error nature made because we are destroying the balance?

Most of economic growth is bad? except for compagnies who are trying to safe nature and try to make the world better?
Like compagnies who are fishing the sea empty or monsanto who are trying to manipulate plants to grow faster so we can have even more people. And i'm thinking that compagnies like that will kill all important insects.

Bad growth is when there is too much of one thing?

i think 6 billion humans is more then enough to walk around I am not really looking forward to have 10 billion in 2050 if you look at how much we destroy now it ain't pretty. and population will decline sooner or later wether it is slowly or fast.

[JustaGirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'J')D serves a very important role for doomers. Doomers need to hear from both extremes to decide where on the continuum they belong. I started my blog because of a post from JD telling all of us how useless doomsteading is. I don't want what JD says about it to be true, but I can't deny how compelling a lot of his logic was. My blog is in large part me trying to work out the feelings of doubt he inserted into my brain, complicated further by Toby Hemenway of all people. I don't think anyone should ever feel 100% confident in their world view. One should always allow their ideas to be challenged by devil's advocates.