[Quinny]

Yeah I was just wondering. I've only got a few trees and don't use anything, but I'm not relying on them for an income. Touch wood I haven't had any major pest problems, though I do get a few wormy apples (improves the flavour and protein content).

The other thing is - Are you the indisputable leader of the gang?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat are you spraying them with?
What are you spraying them with?

[Maddog78]

When I was a young guy I had the option to take over my Father's 1300 acre farm in Northern Alberta.
The lifestyle may be good but the economics were terrible. I did not feel like working for slave wages basically.
Canadian grain farmers are not subsidised anywhere near the level of farmers in the US or EU.
I took a different path and never regretted it.
My father eventually sold off his farm. He subdivided off 10 acres first, where the house is and still lives there.
The guy who bought it farms something like 30,000 acres and is millions of dollars in debt..
Get big or get out it seems to be.

[topcat]

"Q" wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah I was just wondering. I've only got a few trees and don't use anything,

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '&')quot;Q" wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah I was just wondering. I've only got a few trees and don't use anything,

[Quinny]

Same here, I get loads of apples, mainly for cooking. The ones that are a bit wormy either feed the birds/hens or get used for cider apparently the worms improve the texture. Can't vouch for that, but it tastes alright and works!

[topcat]

JD wrote: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')urious: why is it necessary to spray chemicals at all?

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', 'J')D wrote: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')urious: why is it necessary to spray chemicals at all?

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', ' ')
We have a roadside market and a good portion of our customers are FAR better off financially then us. (Like the time I walked out to a car to read the name on the trunk because I was curious what it was - Lambroginia (sp?).

[Quinny]

I think this highlights the difference between Permaculture and Classic farming.

A permaculture orchard would have lots of different trees, which helps prevent the buildup of pests/diseases. It's probably not economically sustainable, but then again is anything in the current financial climate.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', 'J')D wrote: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')urious: why is it necessary to spray chemicals at all?

[topcat]

As for anyone else, do as you wish.

This is where and how I am. If I woulda/coulda/shoulda, those are far another day.

Now, for the OP: Was weather mentioned? I find it one if not the most challenging input. And then you need to come to the realization and acceptance that it is beyond your controll.

'A dry year will scare ya. A wet year will starve ya.'
(I heard first from a friend's dearly missed father.)

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', 'A')s for anyone else, do as you wish.

This is where and how I am. If I woulda/coulda/shoulda, those are far another day.

Now, for the OP: Was weather mentioned? I find it one if not the most challenging input. And then you need to come to the realization and acceptance that it is beyond your controll.

'A dry year will scare ya. A wet year will starve ya.'
(I heard first from a friend's dearly missed father.)

[topcat]

JDM wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'h')ope you didn't take my questions as criticism because they certainly weren't meant to be - I'm just trying to wrap my head around the nuances of growing stuff, since I would prefer not to use any kind of pesticide/fungicide stuff.

[topcat]

JDM wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m just trying to wrap my head around the nuances of growing stuff, since I would prefer not to use any kind of pesticide/fungicide stuff.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', 'J')DM wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m just trying to wrap my head around the nuances of growing stuff, since I would prefer not to use any kind of pesticide/fungicide stuff.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Pheba from the Farm:
156 acres.
Crop farmed 100 acres until 1991 when equipment wore out and could not afford to replace.
Also, like most 160 acre small farm plots in Missouri, land is played out; i.e., soil is depleted from crop farming.
Switched to cow/calf operation.
Profit from 30-35 head of breeding cows averages 10 thousand dollars per year, in a great year.
Average cost of caring for 30-35 head of breeding cows using standard production methods is about 11 thousand dollars.
The upsurge of ethanol production caused corn to skyrocket.
Conventional cow/calf operations demands use of corn to "finish" beef cattle.
There is no way we could make a profit from the farm using conventional farming methods.
The Pilgrim is a union carpenter or we would starve.
We are switching farm to organic grass fed beef. We now have more money in farm account than we have ever had before.
Pilgrim does not take government subsidies or handouts. He has actually turned them down. To him it feels like stealing.
A few years ago we had a dry year, a very dry year. My husband, who believes in planning ahead, baled extra hay. He baled every acre of hay we had. He even baled the area around the pond dams. That fall we received a letter from the government offering us a payment of $6.00 per head to cover "the hay crisis".
We turned the money down. We did not have a hay crisis because we planned ahead. We knew we would have a rough winter hay wise.
Traditionally a farmer was supposed to to make enough from a farm to: "cover the housekeeping plus 10%.
That all changed with government subsidies.
A lot of the "struggling" definition depends on how you define small farm.
1200 acre farms with huge government subsidies do not struggle if they accept subsidies.
They purchase huge pieces of machinery which they then depreciate on their taxes. They receive thousands upon thousands of dollars in government subsidies.
100 acres of corn cost 20 thousand dollars for fertilizer alone. The seed is very expensive.
A farmer has to borrow money to plant the crop, then pays off the loan if the crop is successful. There are government subsidies and additional payments if the farmer has crop insurance. It has all become a nightmare game that has nothing to do with reality.
If you define a small farm as 160 acres or less (the true definition) then those farmers are truly struggling.
We are switching to grass feed beef, raise blackberries, and our own food. We are still struggling. Our farm is showing more of a financial profit now than at any time in memory.
We are switching to intensive grazing management, and plan on getting chicken tractors (mobile chicken pens) to follow the cattle in the fields.
It is difficult to overcome a lifetime of propaganda from slick ads in farm magazines, but we are learning.
It is also difficult to do things different than your neighbors. especially if you grew up with these neighbors, and they are your friends.
It takes relearning, courage, and time.
Pheba.

[Quinny]

Good luck with your efforts. Sounds to me you are ahead of your peer group in terms of transition. You should take the subsidy and use it to improve your chances of your plan working.

PS did you see the BBC 'Farm for the future'

[odegaard]

To: PhebaAndThePilgrim

Thanks for the post.
It's always nice to hear from someone who actually has *Hands on experience* speak about their respective field.

[turner]

Thanks for that honest account of life on the farm. I am looking forward to sending a copy to a few people that still think it's an easy and wealthy life.