$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '
')For those of us who have been here for years, what else is there to discuss
PeakOil is You
Why are you here?
Why are you here?
by mos6507 » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 06:20:14
Thought I'd start a new thread on the topic of people abandoning the site...
Maybe I'm offbase for thinking this way but the triggerpoint (maybe indirectly at best in Shanny's case after reading MDs last post in the locked thread) seems to have been me pissing off Ludi, which then made AAA want to leave. For the record, it's my opinion that Ludi's emotional outburst to my post is really more of a reflection of her personality than some mortal netiquette sin that I committed, and so this being the third time she reacted this way to what I felt was a legitimate post in the context of the thread, I chose not to fall on my spear anymore on her behalf. I know saying that will cause most to knee-jerk rush to her defense. But let it be known that I can't think of any other member of peakoil.com other than Revi that I had gotten closer to on these boards. We even exchanged real email addresses and names with eachother. But the downside of this is like in any relationship when you get to know eachother better--expectations begin to come into play. The advantage of the anonymity of the internet is that you can say things you never would dare tell someone in person. You can prod them, challenge them, offer them tough love (tell them you look fat in that dress). We're acquaintances, not roommates. The obssessive nature of peakoil.com posting which I and the other most active posters exhibit adds up to the point where we begin to feel like we're all living in MTV's Real World, this collection of misfits, the rainbow assortment of doomer archetypes all jockying for mindshare. We comment on eachother's threads within a minute of eachother and ride the F5 key. It's like a chatroom. It can feel too close for comfort when someone gets under your nerves. You don't want to leave disputes left hanging unresolved.
Ludi's third tirade against one of my posts caused me to reassess the whole purpose I am here. In the past I said that this board is like a support group. Oftentimes it's not so much enlightenment we're looking for here, but a shoulder to cry on to help you get through this day by day, in lieu of anyone in real life willing to listen. But by and large (and I'm sure people will post their exceptions) doomers don't make very good shoulders to cry on. Someone like Monte would be the posterchild for that. Many a newbie who has come here with visions of ecotopia in their eyes has been rendered suicidal over Monte's idea of a fond welcome. If they aren't overtly obnoxious, their ideologies may be so opposed to your own that you either constantly get involved in flamewars or dump reams and reams of them into the ignore list. When it comes to Ludi, I probably share more of her ideology than most of the others here, but that last 10% of incompatibility becomes an itch that keeps getting scratched until it's a festering wound. And it goes both ways. Not long ago Ludi dragged me kicking and screaming into writing an essay about my vision of doom, after which she said she agreed 100%. Well, apparently not quite 100% after all. Trying to convince anyone and everyone to see doom exactly your own way is an exercise in futility. Doomers can be even more stubborn than "sheeple" sometimes once their doomer narrative is set in stone. You state your case, but in the end, be willing to agree to disagree, and be thankful those disagreements are only virtual and there is nothing tangible at stake. That won't always be the case.
Yes, we certainly are running over the same ground again and again, literally, with 5+ year old Monte threads getting bumped with predictably vitriolic results. But they don't call this a "dilemma" for nothing. Again and again I keep saying that peak oil will bring out the best and the worst in human nature. It will demand that we all reach down and expose who we are, what matters to us, what our values are. History will judge our actions in the rearview mirror. You're never going to reach universal agreement over what to do and why. For all we know, we all owe our existence to those who allowed themselves to commit horrendous atrocities during the Toba disaster in order that they would live while others died. Or maybe we are descendants of creative types who passively advoided conflict and found isolated niches in which to ride out collapse. Odds are it's a combination of both. These are the issues we have to grapple with and it's emotionally draining stuff. Nevertheless, I think a certain level of emotional detachment would be a good thing. There are going to be very few doomer "soulmates" if you will. If people are coming here for that, be prepared for disappointment.
The reason I have been so reluctant to discuss this is because ultimately these narcissistic discussions about netiquette are the kinds of things that can eat up swaths of your time This image says it all, really:
And seriously, how consistent is a powerdown future of getting your fingernails dirty in the garden and nurturing community with sitting beary eyed at a computer monitor at 3AM on a wordsend? I do think people would be better off spending their free time prepping than hanging out here. The internet is a great tool and it's how I learned about peak oil as most did but beyond a certain point it's more of a vice than an asset. I've been very busy these last few months putting a square foot garden together. There are plenty of other sites dedicated to gardening I could visit for practical advice on that front. If you feel you aren't learning anything by being here, then it's probably a good sign to leave it out of your regular routine. You can always PM people and get their contact info to stay in touch.
- mos6507
Re: Why are you here?
by MD » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 06:35:43
good post mos
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Why are you here?
by patience » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 07:38:06
I came here to learn and share what I have learned, and found all mos described. It has taken a while to come to understand so many people here. After I waded through a few disasters of my own making, I have become something of a recluse, choosing not to say a lot of things that come to mind in the interest of constructive discussion. I was learning a personal code of conduct.
That aside, I do find gobs of good discussion here on many topics that make it well worth my time. And some of the more diligent here have done reams of research that saves me plowing the same ground. I find that a huge benefit--I get the condensed version, or even a simple bottom line explanation of important things that I don't have the motive to dig out myself. Hopefully, I can give enough from my own background to make it balance out. I don't want to be a leech, nor a single issue preacher.
From the many characters here, I get something from each one, and have never put anyone on ignore. Even those who seem to be unpopular have a POV that I need to know about. And several whom I at first did not care for, have come to be very interesting people. Makes me wonder how many people I have left alone IRL where I should have persevered! The Internet has the advantage of allowing us to be discrete in ways that are difficult IRL.
Many subjects are posted here that I would be unaware of otherwise, a great value to me. I particularly enjoy posts from posters in many countries that give me a look at things from other directions. I value those highly.
If there is to be a single reason for being here, for me it is education. All of that is not comforting, but it is all beneficial. And maybe as important is the value of the no-holds-barred news of current issues and events that impact my life, again, subject to some discomfiture for me, but that's life. I wouldn't have it any other way.
That aside, I do find gobs of good discussion here on many topics that make it well worth my time. And some of the more diligent here have done reams of research that saves me plowing the same ground. I find that a huge benefit--I get the condensed version, or even a simple bottom line explanation of important things that I don't have the motive to dig out myself. Hopefully, I can give enough from my own background to make it balance out. I don't want to be a leech, nor a single issue preacher.
From the many characters here, I get something from each one, and have never put anyone on ignore. Even those who seem to be unpopular have a POV that I need to know about. And several whom I at first did not care for, have come to be very interesting people. Makes me wonder how many people I have left alone IRL where I should have persevered! The Internet has the advantage of allowing us to be discrete in ways that are difficult IRL.
Many subjects are posted here that I would be unaware of otherwise, a great value to me. I particularly enjoy posts from posters in many countries that give me a look at things from other directions. I value those highly.
If there is to be a single reason for being here, for me it is education. All of that is not comforting, but it is all beneficial. And maybe as important is the value of the no-holds-barred news of current issues and events that impact my life, again, subject to some discomfiture for me, but that's life. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Local fix-it guy..
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Re: Why are you here?
by NoWorries » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 08:06:05
I come here mainly for the news feeds. It is something of a clearinghouse of information and links on peak oil-related news. Most of these items simply aren't carried on the mainstream news, for whatever various reasons (ie--Susan Boyle, Brittany's new baby, etc, and other nonsense takes precedence).
I don't consider myself a "doomer", but I do believe that oil prices are going to skyrocket within my lifetime (I'm 37), if not due to geological constraints then due to economic instability (eg--US dollar collapse) or geopolitical instability (terrorism, Mid-East tension). I've suspected as much for the past 5 years or so. There's just too much to potentially go wrong out there, to take a sanguine view.
And it wouldn't take $200 /barrel oil to bring chaos. Look at the panic last summer when it touched $147 /bbl. That was unsustainable, and most people knew it.
I would anticipate a return to the $150 range within the next 2 years, unless the economy stays flat on the mat (which it may, and which leads to another form of crisis in itself).
I do not usually read the forum section, but I wish that people would stick to PO-related discussion, instead of Mayan prophecy, etc, or even economic news (although the latter discussion is more relevant to PO). I'm not religious or superstitious. And I'm not obsessed with PO, either. But I do believe it's coming within my lifetime.
I don't consider myself a "doomer", but I do believe that oil prices are going to skyrocket within my lifetime (I'm 37), if not due to geological constraints then due to economic instability (eg--US dollar collapse) or geopolitical instability (terrorism, Mid-East tension). I've suspected as much for the past 5 years or so. There's just too much to potentially go wrong out there, to take a sanguine view.
And it wouldn't take $200 /barrel oil to bring chaos. Look at the panic last summer when it touched $147 /bbl. That was unsustainable, and most people knew it.
I would anticipate a return to the $150 range within the next 2 years, unless the economy stays flat on the mat (which it may, and which leads to another form of crisis in itself).
I do not usually read the forum section, but I wish that people would stick to PO-related discussion, instead of Mayan prophecy, etc, or even economic news (although the latter discussion is more relevant to PO). I'm not religious or superstitious. And I'm not obsessed with PO, either. But I do believe it's coming within my lifetime.
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Re: Why are you here?
by 3aidlillahi » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 08:06:44
For me, it was initially to learn about PO. Then after I'd grasped the basics, I went into the advanced discussion. This lasted for about a year or so. After that, I spent probably about the next two years just wadding through the garbage Open Discussion, debating politics, religion and miscellaneous stuff that is largely irrelevant to PO or that could have been achieved at other forums.
For the past couple of months, I'm trying to focus more on the planning forum which I think is probably better than other forums because of the knowledge that we all have about the future. Going to other sites may lead one to think that non-organic methods are a good idea. Most people seem to be more concerned with permaculture or at least a gardening method that resembles it in some way, even if it isn't the "pure" version of it.
I still visit the Open Discussion and those random threads about the collapse of the economy; however, I'm trying to make my stay here better for my, and others', education. I'm trying to return to my "roots" on PO.com. In all, I think that this site as it all: politics, religion, economy, realism and permaculture/organic agriculture.
For the past couple of months, I'm trying to focus more on the planning forum which I think is probably better than other forums because of the knowledge that we all have about the future. Going to other sites may lead one to think that non-organic methods are a good idea. Most people seem to be more concerned with permaculture or at least a gardening method that resembles it in some way, even if it isn't the "pure" version of it.
I still visit the Open Discussion and those random threads about the collapse of the economy; however, I'm trying to make my stay here better for my, and others', education. I'm trying to return to my "roots" on PO.com. In all, I think that this site as it all: politics, religion, economy, realism and permaculture/organic agriculture.
Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
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Re: Why are you here?
by Quinny » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 08:42:31
Maybe he needs clarification.
Ducks and runs for cover.
With your new avatar.
Ducks and runs for cover.
With your new avatar.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 07 Jun 2009, 09:12:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deleted excessive blank lines.
Reason: Deleted excessive blank lines.
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
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Re: Why are you here?
by Sixstrings » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 08:49:50
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')he obssessive nature of peakoil.com posting which I and the other most active posters exhibit adds up to the point where we begin to feel like we're all living in MTV's Real World, this collection of misfits, the rainbow assortment of doomer archetypes all jockying for mindshare.
Excellent post, Mos.
Why am I here? Well, this is really my only outlet for information and discussion of those truths which aren't often mentioned in the MSM. And I guess "support group" is a good term. I don't have anyone in my real life circle of friends / family who are interested in these subjects. I don't need any shoulders to "cry on" per se -- it's just a relief to at least know that I'm not alone.
As for interpersonal relations.. I find it ironic that Doomers so often have difficulty getting along with each other. If you're concerned about survival After The Crash, then the cold hard fact is that interpersonal skills will be critical to your survival.
No man is an island. If the Great Big Doom happens, you may just find yourself in a situation where your survival depends upon cooperation and teamwork. Your very survival may depend upon whether the rest of the group likes you or not.
The ability to put one's ego aside and resolve personal conflicts for the greater good is actually THE pre-eminent survival skill for our species. A group of people can always do so much more than one person alone.
So the moral here is, resolve your dispute with Ludi. Look at it as an exercise in post-peak small group survivability. My gosh, don't we always see this kind of thing in disaster movies? It's a cliche plot line, where egos and petty disputes cause the whole group to perish.
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Re: Why are you here?
by Tanada » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 09:09:20
I think it would be interesting to know why we are each here.
That being said, I am here because I find the discussion on PO.com intellectually stimulating, and my life is more than dull if I go unstimulated. I have always been into futurism, science fiction or pure speculation, so discussion about the near and medium term future seem like a natural thing for me to participate in. I stumbled across this website while researching an article I was writing on Bio-diesel and I never left. I have taken breaks of up to three months when I had more pressing issues in my life, but the broad content and many good contributors has always pulled me back eventually.
That being said, I am here because I find the discussion on PO.com intellectually stimulating, and my life is more than dull if I go unstimulated. I have always been into futurism, science fiction or pure speculation, so discussion about the near and medium term future seem like a natural thing for me to participate in. I stumbled across this website while researching an article I was writing on Bio-diesel and I never left. I have taken breaks of up to three months when I had more pressing issues in my life, but the broad content and many good contributors has always pulled me back eventually.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Why are you here?
by drew » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 09:47:45
I'm not sure anymore.
I don't really want to invest the time to research a lot of the philosophical/political arguments that go on here, and I hate making mistakes/being proved wrong, (has happened to me here) so that avenue is not open for me. In any event, I'm well into middle age so my philosophy on life is pretty well established and not likely to change much. On the other hand I have a strong distaste for conservatives and racists so there are plenty here I could fight with. But as I said, I don't bother.
I do come here for the news feeds as one of the other posters does. The feeds are a different window on the world, and I need that.
I also like discussing/reading about peoples' trades and the markets since I am actively involved.
One of the bigger reasons i still hang out is my belief that we are on a collision course with a lot of different issues, all plantetary or resource based. The 'show must go on' media just doesn't cut it.
I find some level of reality and sanity (honestly) by finding a middle ground of ''truth" between the deep dark despair sometimes found here and the rest of the world which is just a little too happy go lucky.
There's a lot of kooks here too. Kind of fun, but bad for you. Like reading the National Enquirer.
Drew
I don't really want to invest the time to research a lot of the philosophical/political arguments that go on here, and I hate making mistakes/being proved wrong, (has happened to me here) so that avenue is not open for me. In any event, I'm well into middle age so my philosophy on life is pretty well established and not likely to change much. On the other hand I have a strong distaste for conservatives and racists so there are plenty here I could fight with. But as I said, I don't bother.
I do come here for the news feeds as one of the other posters does. The feeds are a different window on the world, and I need that.
I also like discussing/reading about peoples' trades and the markets since I am actively involved.
One of the bigger reasons i still hang out is my belief that we are on a collision course with a lot of different issues, all plantetary or resource based. The 'show must go on' media just doesn't cut it.
I find some level of reality and sanity (honestly) by finding a middle ground of ''truth" between the deep dark despair sometimes found here and the rest of the world which is just a little too happy go lucky.
There's a lot of kooks here too. Kind of fun, but bad for you. Like reading the National Enquirer.
Drew
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Re: Why are you here?
by vision-master » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 09:58:07
This place is part of my journey in finding our 'source of origin'. In discovering our purpose on this Planet.
- vision-master
Re: Why are you here?
by Jotapay » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 11:16:08
Those who thoroughly understand Peak Oil and its implications begin to see the world and everything in it with peak oil tinted glasses because the problem it presents is so huge. PO threatens our civilization and the survival for most of the population on the planet. This website is like a church, a community, for those whose lives have become so permeated by the different aspects of Peak Oil. We are like religious zealots in the church of Peak Oil, and this is our meeting house.
As far as drama, I don't let it bug me. Life is too short to get bent out of shape regarding something as petty as a discussion forum. There are many different personality types and ideologies on this forum. There is going to be some conflict. I try and stay away from conflict because it is a complete waste of my energy (although I've had a vitriolic post or two), but I do not stay away from discussions when I feel I can offer some info which does have some value, even if others will disagree.
I'm here for the continuing information. I did my initial flurry of research in 2007-2008. Now I am just prepping and trying to make my property/house self-sustainable as well as trying to educate others around me.
After I got my Geology degree, I decided to enter the work force and not go to grad school. Had I gone to grad school and gotten an isotopic/structural Geology or sedimentary Geology degree and gone to work for an oil company, I could contribute more directly to the discussions specifically relating to current conditions of different oil fields. Instead, I can just offer 4 years worth of geological book knowledge, IT experience and prepping anecdotes.
As far as drama, I don't let it bug me. Life is too short to get bent out of shape regarding something as petty as a discussion forum. There are many different personality types and ideologies on this forum. There is going to be some conflict. I try and stay away from conflict because it is a complete waste of my energy (although I've had a vitriolic post or two), but I do not stay away from discussions when I feel I can offer some info which does have some value, even if others will disagree.
I'm here for the continuing information. I did my initial flurry of research in 2007-2008. Now I am just prepping and trying to make my property/house self-sustainable as well as trying to educate others around me.
After I got my Geology degree, I decided to enter the work force and not go to grad school. Had I gone to grad school and gotten an isotopic/structural Geology or sedimentary Geology degree and gone to work for an oil company, I could contribute more directly to the discussions specifically relating to current conditions of different oil fields. Instead, I can just offer 4 years worth of geological book knowledge, IT experience and prepping anecdotes.
- Jotapay
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Re: Why are you here?
by mos6507 » Sun 07 Jun 2009, 13:23:16
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')os still doesn't understand why I was upset.
http://peakoil.com/psychology/please-as ... 53574.html
http://peakoil.com/psychology/please-as ... 53574.html
I'm not going to scratch the now-festering itch. I suggest you grow a harder shell or keep me on ignore because you're not going to get what you want from me anymore than I'm going to get Plantagenet to say he loves Obama.
- mos6507
