In the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless. It won't stop us using all the hydrocarbons - merely slow us down a little. Eventually we'll use all the fossil fuels we can get our hands on.
You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.
PeakOil is You
You can't save energy
You can't save energy
by spot5050 » Sat 30 May 2009, 20:24:48
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Re: You can't save energy
by Ludi » Sat 30 May 2009, 20:30:41
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spot5050', 'I')n the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless. It won't stop us using all the hydrocarbons - merely slow us down a little. Eventually we'll use all the fossil fuels we can get our hands on.
You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.
You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.
Pretty much agree. It's what's called Jevon's Paradox.
But you CAN save your own resources by using fewer expensive resources. You CAN reduce your need to earn by reducing your use of expensive resources.
Maybe you just love your job and leap from your bed in the morning just itching to go to work to earn more money so you can buy more expensive resources, but for me, I prefer sleeping in.
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Re: You can't save energy
by mattduke » Sat 30 May 2009, 20:35:43
Any oil the US saves will be burned by China instead.
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Re: You can't save energy
by Schmuto » Sat 30 May 2009, 21:18:45
Agree with OP, disagree that it's Jevon's paradox.
It's just human nature.
It's just human nature.
June 5, 09. Taking a powder for at least a while - big change of life coming up.
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We're saved! YesPlease promises that we'll be running cars on battery cubes about the size of a toaster.
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We're saved! YesPlease promises that we'll be running cars on battery cubes about the size of a toaster.
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Re: You can't save energy
by Narz » Sat 30 May 2009, 23:22:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spot5050', 'I')n the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless.
...
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.
...
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'A')ny oil the US saves will be burned by China instead.
Cool, lets just all shoot ourselves then.
Misery loves company but it doesn't stop me from wishing fatalists would keep their depression to themselves.
It matters very much whether our decline rate is 1 or 2% or 5 or 6%. Anyone who doesn't think so is quite simply stupid.
It's like being shipwrecked on a desert island with three month's supply of food - an island that may have hidden fruit trees & game but one that will take a long time to explore and one fatalist fuckwad crew members says "ah fuck it, we're screwed, lets just scarf this food ASAP cause in the end it doesn't matter". If I had a guy like that on my island I'd send him off into the sea on a raft with a canteen of water and a cyanide tablet so he could put his money (in the form of a suicide pill) where his mouth was. Actually the canteen could be useful, I'd have him take the tablet first & then send him off to sea. Actually no, his body could be useful to attract potential prey, I'd just give him the pill, in a situation like that there's no spare energy for unnecessary melodrama & ceremony.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Pretty much agree. It's what's called Jevon's Paradox.
Jevon's Paradox is garbage as has been explained as such dozens of times. In practical terms, it doesn't show itself in the modern marketplace. It is a feature of extremely abundant times & hasn't been seen in a 100 years & won't be seen again on a large scale.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', 'I')t's just human nature.
No it isn't. Humans can live sustainably. Our dominant cultural paradigm is greed & growth at all costs (like a cancer cell) rather than encouraging traits like intelligent foresight. It's not "human nature". That's just a copout. Humanity is young, we're like a misguided toddler going thru a phase. If we survive this phase & grow to adulthood you can bet our cultural paradigm will be flipped on it's head.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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