[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heroineworshipper', 'J')ust closed another $2,300,000 mortgage today without planning on paying it off, so U'd better start paying more taxes, U slaves.

[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'V')AT Ha Ha Ha !!!!!

UK Tax - Not a complete breakdown but it goes like this :-

20% of your pay, Income Tax, deducted from your wages. Rate goes up over around £35000 / year to 40% & more. More rises imminent for higher paid.

11% of your pay, National Insurance, pays for national health, sickpay, basic state pension. Deducted from your wages. Rate goes up over around £35000 / year, again more rises imminent.

15% VAT on everything (except food), goes up to 17.5% Jan 2010. Some things taxed a bit less, natural gas / electricity are 5%.

Fuel duty, (petrol, diesel) 2p / litre added twice a year (The fuel escalator)
VAT is added ON TOP - i.e you pay VAT on the duty also !!!

And don't forget, if you run a small business you automatically become a responsible, authorised, UNPAID tax collector !!!!!!!!!!!

All this to keep the bastards at the top in a good lifestyle.

Good luck - Gasmon

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'V')AT Ha Ha Ha !!!!!

UK Tax - Not a complete breakdown but it goes like this :-

20% of your pay, Income Tax, deducted from your wages. Rate goes up over around £35000 / year to 40% & more. More rises imminent for higher paid.

11% of your pay, National Insurance, pays for national health, sickpay, basic state pension. Deducted from your wages. Rate goes up over around £35000 / year, again more rises imminent.

15% VAT on everything (except food), goes up to 17.5% Jan 2010. Some things taxed a bit less, natural gas / electricity are 5%.

Fuel duty, (petrol, diesel) 2p / litre added twice a year (The fuel escalator)
VAT is added ON TOP - i.e you pay VAT on the duty also !!!

And don't forget, if you run a small business you automatically become a responsible, authorised, UNPAID tax collector !!!!!!!!!!!

All this to keep the bastards at the top in a good lifestyle.

Good luck - Gasmon

[heroineworshipper]

England is a vacation. For someone in Calif* earning just enough to survive ($100,000) it's

25% federal income tax
10% state income tax
13% social security
2% medicare, SDI
10% state sales tax
--------------------------
60%

& every bit of it goes not to creating jobs, healthcare, or windmills, but subsidizing real estate with no value.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or someone in Calif* earning just enough to survive ($100,000)

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '1')5% VAT on everything (except food), goes up to 17.5% Jan 2010.

[hironegro]

I hate food safety and drivable roads.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heroineworshipper', 'E')ngland is a vacation. For someone in Calif* earning just enough to survive ($100,000) it's

25% federal income tax
10% state income tax
13% social security
2% medicare, SDI
10% state sales tax
--------------------------
60%

& every bit of it goes not to creating jobs, healthcare, or windmills, but subsidizing real estate with no value.

[jasonraymondson]

San Francisco Minimum Wage is 9.76 @ 40 hours a week is about $1550.00

Remove 45% for all taxes and misc., you get around ($860.00).
Of course they will get around 20% back that following April, but this is what they get to live on. The cheapest place I found with utilities included, was $1295.00

Springfield Mo. Minimum Wage is 7.50 @ 40 hours per week, this comes to about $1200.00. Around 35% comes out including sales tax ($780.00) average rent for a person living by themself is around $500.00 and this includes all utilities.

Missouri Residents do pay more for college, but perhaps California wouldn't be in such a mess if it didn't completely subsidize college education for its residents and for its non citizen residents as well.

Now there are more jobs in san fran than springfield, but there are also more people per job than springfield as well.

*Rental information was found on craigslist.

I would love to live in san fran, I love the weather, but common sense tells me that there is a reason there are far more homeless per capita in ca than there is in missouri

[The_Toecutter]

If those economists who proposed a VAT want a real solution, perhaps they should look at shrinking the size of the U.S. government.

-Cut $450 billion/year from defense spending
-Cut all corporate welfare, typically ~$250 billion/year, but recently has been trillions of dollars for 2008 and 2009
-Eliminate the $50 billion/year Homeland Security Department
-Eliminate the $70 billion/year War on Drugs(also includes cost of imprisoning those convicted of non violent drug offenses)
-Eliminate DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, ect.
-Eliminate social security; the money has been unlawfully spent and younger generations should not be expected to pay 60%+ of their income in taxes to prop it up in the future due to mistakes made by the leaders from the 1970s-present

Keep funding for basic infrastructure in place(roads, water, sewage, ect.), and we'd be a much better off nation with regard to handling this crisis.

People are not going to be able to afford an increased tax burden. Increasing taxes to the point where the disposable income of Joe Sixpack drops to almost nothing will provide further incentive for Joe Sixpack to not seek employment after losing it and instead make a much more viable living in the underground economy(eg. odd jobs, drug trade, theft). If you want to see what happens when ordinary people lose the ability to accumulate wealth, take a trip to your nearest ghetto; you are very likely staring into the near-term future of "middle class" America.

America is the only "developed" country on Earth with tax rates similar to that of Europe(when factoring in state/local/property taxes) but without any return to the public similar in value to the input(eg. high taxes, but no universal healthcare, no free post high school education). Too much money is being spent in the wrong places and too many industries pad for themselves absurd profit margins with the taxpayer footing the bill. If the American populace isn't going to get something in return similar to the value of money being taken from them, then what good is the tax system to the public?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '-')Eliminate social security; the money has been unlawfully spent and younger generations should not be expected to pay 60%+ of their income in taxes to prop it up in the future due to mistakes made by the leaders from the 1970s-present

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '-')Eliminate social security; the money has been unlawfully spent and younger generations should not be expected to pay 60%+ of their income in taxes to prop it up in the future due to mistakes made by the leaders from the 1970s-present

[obixman]

I can think of one major reason why a VAT is almost certain in the US.

We (the citizens) have large amounts of money in Roth accounts which the government has (ha ha ) promised not to subject to income taxes.

However, a VAT will suck the money into the government coffers and still honors the letter of the promise. As the government gets woblier abd woblier the temptation will be too much for our congress critters.

[rangerone314]

I'd love it if they made a VAT tax. I don't buy much of anything.

By this fall I will be using luffa sponges harvested from plants I grew; soap I harvested from soapwort, and will be eating much of my grown food.

[AgentR]

Obama is really stuck between a rock and a hard place; he'd love to raise taxes; but there isn't enough potential revenue available without drastically increasing taxes on most middle class Americans; which includes most of the viable union households. And that ain't gonna fly.

What makes it even harder is that while Obama has a few years for tempers to cool; any new taxes passed in the current term would become very noticeable to the voting public at about the same time as they would be going into the polls to vote for congress critters. Anyone recall... 92 Clinton, health care, stimulus, taxes, (guns too), 94 Democrats in congress crushed.

Not a good variety of "hope and change"; I might hope that Pelosi is dumb enough to go for it; but I don't think I'm that lucky!

[The_Toecutter]

They could raise taxes on the top 0.5% instead, and generate far more money than raising taxes on the middle class ever could.

Personally, I like the idea of the government shrinking a lot better, but raising taxes on the multi-millionaires(and most especially, multi-billionaires) to help pay down the debt would be more helpful than harmful.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '-')Eliminate social security; the money has been unlawfully spent and younger generations should not be expected to pay 60%+ of their income in taxes to prop it up in the future due to mistakes made by the leaders from the 1970s-present

[AgentR]

#3 - realistic plan.

work till you drop.