[Commanding_Heights]

I'm interested to know if these cars can also run on methane since NG is mostly methany anyways. Anyone know?

[vampyregirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Commanding_Heights', 'I')'m interested to know if these cars can also run on methane since NG is mostly methany anyways. Anyone know?

[Micki]

Liquified NG is common fuel in Australia. You even have gov. subsidy for converting your current pertrol engine to LNG.

[vampyregirl]

In Canada we have NG filling stations mostly used by NG engined trucks, buses, taxis etc. Not that many private cars run on NG yet.

[baldwincng]

The new CNG Passat has 119 g/km CO2......the equivalent diesel, fueled by GTl, gives 50% more CO2

http://www.claverton-energy.com/cng-muc ... wheel.html

The Passat is launched in Germany in Feb 2009 - it will sell in very large numbers, very low CO2, half price fuel, 700km range......

[katkinkate]

Micki beat me to it. Like she said, common here in Australia. We've had it available for decades. Cheaper than petrol too. Most population centres have at least one service station that sells it. Most cars/vans that use autogas are dual fuel, keeping the petrol tank available for use as well, which effectively doubles the fuel on board and the range between fill-ups.

[copious.abundance]

Not only do they have some CNG cars coming out, Toyota has even developed a CNG hybrid:

>>> Toyota Looks to Embrace Natural-Gas Hybrid Cars <<<

[copious.abundance]

Here's a website showing where you can fill up your CNG car:
http://www.cngprices.com/

[copious.abundance]

There's 7 Civic GX's in stock at Colonial Honda in Glendale, CA in case anyone wants one:
http://www.colonialhonda.com/new_invent ... &SBtrim=GX

[transm]

CNG is also big in India because its cleaner and less expensive than gasoline. I've read that some fueling stations are delivering a CNG / hydrogen mix for an even cleaner burn.

[Blacksmith]

I once drove a NG powered pickup, the range was about 230 km, then you had to switch over to the gasoline tank.

It was a local government initiative to save money, each conversion cost $6000 cdn and they had to set up their own filling station, first they used a slow fill (overnight) and later a pressurized station with a fill that took about 5 minutes.

They no longer use natural gas in any of their vehicles.

[misterno]

Sounds like many countries embraced this idea sometime ago. I assume CNG and LNG powered vehicles are seen on the street in increasing numbers. So how come demand for oil is still rising y-oy? Shouldn't we see a decline over many years? Small but there had to be a decline and I don't see that.

[Mesuge]

The natural gas home filling station as depicted in Oilfinder's post above called "Phill" just went bankrupt few days ago. In addition, all gas station home or larger ones suck a lot of electricity to compress the stuff into your tank. For instance, that home charger "Phill" consumes ~1kW of power for perhaps eight hours, that's equal or more than charging your PHEV30 (plugin hybrid <30mi) from ordinary free socket and one half or third of consumption for full EVs. Phills were not cheap either. So who wants that crap?

http://carloanasap.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... ankruptcy/
(story & video)

Perhaps, there might be some use for this fuel in public transportation like buses in hilly city terrain etc. I used to own natural gas powered SAAB and it was a spaceship while filling/charging but in comparison to EV this technology sucks..

[Gerben]

Power consumption for Phill is 0.8 kW/hr (0.76 for gen. 1.5). The difference is that it gives you ~15 kW/hr of natural gas. Apples and pears.
Compared to natural gas EV technology sucks.

[Mesuge]

Heh, you are a little bit of topic bro,
we are not discussing energy density of fossil fuels or their orgasmic energy flows (which is true) in this thread.

The basic fact is that it's more efficient to burn natural gas in the powerplant and charge EV/PHEV, than directly detonate this fuel with air inside the ICE. And that's old news, studies have been on this topic produced for decades, maybe your are just "Johnny come lately"..

Again, using previous example of PHEV conversion with 20-30km full electric radius, which will suck from the grid the same ~1kW as "Phill" from the charger but for only half the time. And most of the daily driving is in that range in Europe. In case you are driving more or different faster routes it will help in the blended mode (ICE + electric) to achieve your 70-100mpg out of that hybrid clunker. And guess what, in this scenario I don't need drive to any stinking nat./gas station and/or pay for related infrustructure at home, middleman's profit etc. And we rather not start the whole topic of producing your own electricity/energy via renewables, which can't be done with the fossil fools.

Similarly with the full EVs, but you only need bigger charger, say 3.5kW rated for that overnight charge up of bigger batt. pack..

[Gerben]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', 'H')eh, you are a little bit of topic bro,

[Mesuge]

Sounds like you are not familiar with basic energy concepts related to transportation like using primary energy in well to wheel efficiency analysis etc. Simply, you CAN'T get more energy out of natural gas fossil detonated with air directly in ICE (or used in fool cell) in comparison to using the same amount of natural gas in powerplant and feeding this electricity to EV/PHEV, that's the law of the known universe.

---
Edmunds article from 2005 about Honda GX, which appears to be now axed by its own manufacturer, they are not available in meanigfull numbers:
http://digg.com/d1QAl

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')"However, there is a very attractive alternative, a unit that can be installed in your garage called the Phill. The Phill costs about $4,000 installed, but there is almost $3,000 worth of tax incentives available. This electric-powered device connects to your ordinary city gas line and takes much longer to fill the GX (average of about 4 hours but up to 12 hours for a complete fill-up). But who cares if you are asleep anyway? Also, natural gas metered at homes costs much less; one Los Angeles GX owner reports it is nearly $1 a gallon equivalent. "

[Gerben]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', 't')hat's the law of the known universe.

Whoa, a car that runs both on CNG and gasoline!

>>> LINK <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]2009 Mercedes-Benz B-Series Runs on Natural Gas
by Bill Siuru
04/01/2008



Natural gas is becoming an increasingly popular alternative to gasoline and diesel in Europe. It's less expensive than these conventional motor fuels and has lower carbon dioxide emissions. Also helping is the growing availability of natural gas, with nearly 800 compressed natural gas (CNG) refueling stations in Germany, 600 in Italy, 100 in Switzerland, and 90 in Austria.

Mercedes-Benz has joined in to lend its emphasis to the viability of natural gas vehicles with a bi-fuel engine option for the redesigned 2009 B-Class. The B 170 NGT BlueEFFICIENCY joins B-Class models powered by 1.5- and 1.7-liter gasoline engines (B 150 and B 170), 1.8- and 2.0-liter diesel engines (B 180 CDI and B 200 CDI), and a turbocharged 2-liter gasoline engine (B 200 TURBO). All are four cylinder powerplants.



Identified by "NGT" - for Natural Gas Technology - on the tailgate, the B 170 NGT BlueEFFICIENCY Sport Tourer delivers an identical maximum output of 116 horsepower on either gasoline or natural gas. A driver selects the fuel using a button on the steering wheel. An electronic control unit switches fuel source instantaneously and seamlessly, even while driving.

Mercedes-Benz added four additional gas injectors on the underside of the intake manifold to handle natural gas. A close-coupled pressure governor with an electromagnetic shut-off valve regulates the supply of natural gas and maintains a constant gas pressure in the system.

In addition to the gasoline tank, there are five compressed natural gas tanks with a total capacity of 35.2 pounds, providing a range of over 180 miles. The B 170 NGT has a total range of over 620 miles on both fuels. The tanks are located in the rear and beneath the front passenger footwell. Trunk capacity is about 25 percent less that conventional models but still sufficient for carrying a family's luggage.

[...]

[Maddog78]

Totally biased opinion to follow.


Everyone needs to get one of these!
Cheap and clean burning fuel.



(so I can keep my job drilling for Woodford NG. )