[cipi604]

So PO dot com is not banned in the country of the golden sun.
Welcome!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shyienemo', 'M')ake my first post here ! ok!

Nice to see u guys in PeakOil...

[Sixstrings]

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlord.

(just joking , welcome!)

Are you a Chinese national, or foreign resident of China? Either way, perspectives from China are always good!

[shyienemo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') for one welcome our new Chinese overlord.

(just joking , welcome!)

Are you a Chinese national, or foreign resident of China? Either way, perspectives from China are always good!

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shyienemo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') for one welcome our new Chinese overlord.

(just joking , welcome!)

Are you a Chinese national, or foreign resident of China? Either way, perspectives from China are always good!

[shyienemo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shyienemo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') for one welcome our new Chinese overlord.

(just joking , welcome!)

Are you a Chinese national, or foreign resident of China? Either way, perspectives from China are always good!

[Katzepfote]

I first became aware of the Peak Oil issue several years back through Matt Savinar's site and that's how I found peakoil.com. I've experienced many interesting hours reading the posts here and on other sites. So, I finally decided to take the plunge and join the ongoing discussion.

When I first discovered this topic, the economy was still going along great guns and the average person probably would have regarded you as a candidate for the nearest asylum had you told them that by the end of this decade, we'd be in the biggest financial mess since the Great Depression and gas prices would exceed $4.00 a gallon (in certain locales) for periods of time. Sometimes I had a hard time believing it myself.

I live in the greater St. Louis, MO metropolitan area. So far, our region hasn't been hit quite as hard as places like Florida, California, and Nevada in terms of the housing bubble burst and economic downturn. Our gas prices tend to be lower than in many other parts of the US though they've risen back up to over $2.00 a gallon for regular unleaded. St. Louis used to have a lot of corporate HQs at one time. Southwestern Bell moved to Texas then this "Baby Bell" was taken over again by AT&T about three decades after being carved out from it. Then TWA got gobbled up by American, McDonnell-Douglas by Boeing, May Department Stores was absorbed by Federated the parent co. of Macy's and of course, there was the recent marriage of Anheuser-Busch and In-Bev. There's a big Chrysler plant in southwest St. Louis County that's going to be sitting empty. I guess they could turn it into a mall except we're already somewhat oversaturated with them.

Although the St. Louis area is not an overpopulated behemoth (not that I'm saying that's a negative!) like New York, LA, and Chicago, it is fairly sprawling and includes the city of St. Louis proper, St. Louis County (a distinct political entity), plus the neighboring counties of St. Charles and Jefferson on the Missouri side of the Missisippi plus the "bedroom community" counties on the Illinois side of St. Clair, Madison and Monroe.

While we haven't gotten hit as hard in terms of this recession, depression, whatever you prefer to call it, I am picking up some real nervousness even from people I know who are still employed. I've heard anecdotes of layoffs on a small scale or cutbacks in hours/days worked in lieu of the former. We sometimes joke that the trends which begin on the Coasts eventually work their way to Flyover Country here after a lag time of anywhere from several months to a couple years. Although I suppose that time period could be shortened these days because of faster communications via the Internet, satellite/Cable TV.

In terms of Peak Oil awareness, I do see more hybrids on the local roads than, say, even two years ago. The big SUVs and pick-ups were less in evidence last year during the big run-up in gas prices last year although they've made a comeback of sorts as the prices fell. I imagine that a lot of people here still feel that last year was a freak and we'll never see the like again.

While the big cities in Missouri and perhaps some of the college towns can be colored "blue", or at least "purple", the rest of the state is pretty red. Cape Giradeau, about a hundred miles or so south of here is the hometown of Rush Limbaugh and Springfield to the southwest is the HQ of the Assemblies of God. The former Attorney General, John Ashcroft, also hailed from there. (Sidenote: Brad Pitt and Kathleen Turner also hail from Springfield although I'd hardly call them typical Springfielders or whatever.)

As for myself, I'm a woman, just reached the qualifying age for AARP membership a few years back, married with two stepsons and a cat. My hubby works for a local media company. I work part-time (office admin) at two different places. One is a government entity, the other is a small private manufacturer. I hesitate to be any more specific than that as I believe there is safety in anonymity and being rather generic when you discuss your employer. I will say that I can see the impacts of the bad economy on a micro scale at my two different workplaces. Certainly, at the public entity as the tax revenues slide and at the other with fuel prices. The latter uses trucks for delivering their products as well as receiving supplies. Being in a position to see invoices, I saw fuel surcharges and some of their customers can be rather slow in paying or have even turned to using credit cards instead of checks for paying us.

I can't say that I'm a "Mad Max" doomer, but there is much that is happening that certainly gives me more than a little pause when I contemplate the coming years. If there were just one or two bad things facing our planet, I'd be more optimistic though I don't think I'd ever tip over into whole hog cornucopianism. (I suppose I could be cornucopian on the micro level for myself and my family should I ever be fortunate enough to win the Power Ball lottery jackpot. Even then, I'd be careful because I think that this is not an era for flaunting one's megamillion bank account. These days, to be living the lifestyle-of-the-rich-and-famous might comparable to painting a big old bullseye on yourself for the have-somewhat-less/have-not majority to take dead aim at.) However, when you consider this laundry list: peak oil, overpopulation, extreme climate change (whether it tips to greenhouse or to new ice age), the general economic crisis, the perpetual geopolitical messes in Eurasia, etc., it looks like we're in for some very interesting times. And not interesting in a good way.

Sorry to run on but I wanted to give you some background. So I'm now a participant and am looking forward to posting here as well as hearing from the rest of you.

[Caffeine]

Welcome.

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Katzepfote', 'I') can't say that I'm a "Mad Max" doomer,

[patience]

Katzepfote,

Welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy your presence here.

I'm one of the resident old guys, 62 and just onto SS, but keep a small repair shop business. I tend to haunt the Planning threads and Economics, being interested mostly in how to cope with what is facing us. See you there!

[Katzepfote]

Thanks for the kind welcome, Caffeine, Schmuto, pstarr and Patience! Also to whoever else responds while I'm typing away here.

I've been thinking about how Peak Oil has colored the way I view so many things. It's hard sometimes when you're attending to the business of daily life that this seemingly permanent oil-fueled modern world of ours could collapse into a kind of second Dark Ages. But I imagine that the people who inhabited Ancient Rome, the Aztecs, Incas, Greenlanders, pre-Katrina New Orleans, pre-earthquake Sichuan, etc. couldn't imagine that the worst-case scenario would ever really happen. Or, that if it did, it would be in some future time long after they would have died and had to deal with it directly.

I use my various household appliances and have passing thoughts of what I would do to cope if the grid ceased to function. At work, I can see how reliant we are on our computers and can imagine the panic that would ensue if they went dead. I've watched that "Life After People" show on cable and as I drive around, try to get my mind around the fact that all the signs of civilization I see around me could be gone without a trace several thousand years in the future.

In reading this site and others similar to it, I know that some think we could sink into a kind of quasi-caveman existence. However, there were ancient cultures (Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mesoamerican) that managed to build some pretty impressive civilizations that functioned for a time without fossil fuel. Granted, I don't think that a population of 6 billion+ could be sustained under those circumstances.

Even without a dieoff caused by something like a plague, war, or fights between people in a localized area over whatever resources are left, I think many could die when the modern medical infrastructure breaks down. A lot of medicines need refrigeration. No electricity = no CAT scans, X-rays, mammograms, and MRIs. No power for monitors, incubators, and heart/lung machines. And no power for the factories that manufacture all of the pharmaceuticals/vaccines and the machines and their replacement parts.

I think we could learn something by examining past cultures and how they dealt with things without fossil fuels. Yes, I know they got things wrong, but obviously if they got it all wrong, we wouldn't be here today. Plus, we do have the advantage of hindsight in being able to examine these societies from a historical standpoint. The question is could we use this knowledge to compensate for what we may lose? And to what extent? I think we could, but the new world sure as hell won't be "business as usual" and many will not make it. Some may go down kicking and screaming but I can think of many people I know that might well prefer death rather than give up the lifestyle they live now or even compromise on some aspects of it.

[Narz]

I've been to Chengdu, still got a knife I bought at a market there.

Welcome!

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Katzepfote', ' ')

I think we could learn something by examining past cultures and how they dealt with things without fossil fuels. Yes, I know they got things wrong, but obviously if they got it all wrong, we wouldn't be here today. Plus, we do have the advantage of hindsight in being able to examine these societies from a historical standpoint. The question is could we use this knowledge to compensate for what we may lose? And to what extent? I think we could, but the new world sure as hell won't be "business as usual" and many will not make it. Some may go down kicking and screaming but I can think of many people I know that might well prefer death rather than give up the lifestyle they live now or even compromise on some aspects of it.

[jdmartin]

Welcome katzepfote, glad to have ye.

Couple of minor observations:

1. Don't take too much offense at some of our rougher 'round the edges posters that can be abrasive, if not downright aggravating (hey, I might fit into that mold sometimes ). People are passionate about this subject, both sides, and emotions come out.

2. Post! We need fresh blood posting real-world observations. Especially in different locales.

3. I'm glad to see more women joining the board. Aside from the sausage-fest aspect, women joining the board indicates a more mainstream acceptance of the limits of society than when it's just a bunch of crazy dudes in the fortress...

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'w')omen joining the board indicates a more mainstream acceptance of the limits of society than when it's just a bunch of crazy dudes in the fortress...

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'K')atzepfote, can you change the thread subject?

For some reason my eyes keep reading 'Long-time sucker, first-time poster'. I swear. I am not being facetious or mean. Maybe I have been here too long?

[Katzepfote]

WildRose: your reply to Pstarr re: "long-time sucker" was almost identical to what I was going to say. I also enjoyed reading your comments on Edmonton. I had a cousin who once lived there and who now resides in Victoria, British Columbia. She was born in the States, but (it's a looong story) ended up in Canada and is a citizen there.

Back to the term "suckers". I think a lot of us have been suckers in the sense thaat a lot of us (at one time) bought into the high consumption lifestyle. Or because, before our eyes were opened to this issue, we've each "sucked" up our share of the dwindling petroleum supply.

jdmartin: no, I don't take offense easily and enjoy a good debate even when it gets a little "rough around the edges". While I've noted some passionate give and take here at times, it's never or rarely descended to the trite grade school level I've sometimes seen on other discussion forums. "Is not! Is too! You're dumb! Well, you're dumber! Certs is a breath mint! No, it's a candy mint!"

[WildRose]

Welcome, shyienemo!

I had the pleasure of visiting Beijing, Xi'an and Shanghai last year. My son is studying Mandarin in our Canadian city.

I would love to return to your country and see more of it, but I don't know if I will ever get there again.

I was just looking at some photos of Chengdu on the net; it looks lovely.

It's nice to have you aboard. I'll be looking forward to hearing your viewpoints.

WildRose

[shyienemo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')'ve been to Chengdu, still got a knife I bought at a market there.

Welcome!

[shyienemo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'W')elcome, shyienemo!

I had the pleasure of visiting Beijing, Xi'an and Shanghai last year. My son is studying Mandarin in our Canadian city.

I would love to return to your country and see more of it, but I don't know if I will ever get there again.

I was just looking at some photos of Chengdu on the net; it looks lovely.

It's nice to have you aboard. I'll be looking forward to hearing your viewpoints.

WildRose