[vtsnowedin]

Don't forget the Joe sixpack taxes.

Cigarette taxes $2.00/pack +/- say $700 a year
Beer/ Liquor tax guesstimate $500 a year
Lottery tickets /Stupidity tax $1400 a year.
That ones very progressive. The stupider you are the more you pay and you get to decide how stupid you are.
Extra gas tax on old 4x4 pk truck $300 a year
Nascar ticket tax $100 a year
Fast food tax $600 a year
Titty bar door tax $150 a year
Hunting and fishing licenses $200 a year
Boat& 4wheeler registration.......... $150 a year
Take junior along with you on all this (cepting the titty bar just yet)
$1000 a year
And the total is......................................$5100.
There's more but you get the idea.

[Byron100]

And what's even more shocking is how small of a percentage of the US Federal Government Budget actually comes from income taxes...the rest of the difference is made up by way of the deficit (borrowing) of course.

Just imagine if the Balanced Budget Amendment was put into effect tomorrow...if you think the taxes are bad now, just think how much higher they'd have to be to balance the budget...whew!

I say we go with my idea with taxing the selling end of stock trades...let Wall Street pay our bills...LOL. And if traders don't wanna pay, they can just hold on to their stocks, can't they? (At least until it's gone up enough to cover the extra .5% of tax or whatever).

Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't be a good idea?

[vision-master]

I pay almost nothing in taxes. With our property tax rebate, my total property tax out of pocket is about $600 year. My income taxes are about 10%, of course, I don't make any money. You see how it works.......

[Blacksmith]

A new study says a majority of Canadians make use of tax-funded services that are worth at least half of their combined household incomes, suggesting they are getting good value for their tax dollars.

The left-leaning Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives study, entitled "Canada's Quiet Bargain: The Benefits of Public Spending" argues that Canadians are benefiting greatly from the taxes they are required to pay, despite any perception that they would be better off with lower taxes.

On average, Canadians reap $17,000 worth of benefits from tax-funded public services each year, including pensions, child-care benefits, roads and police services.

More than two-thirds of Canadians' public service benefits are worth more than half their total household incomes.

Canadians who make between $80,000 and $90,000 per year still enjoy tax-funded benefits that are worth about half their income.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', '
')I say we go with my idea with taxing the selling end of stock trades

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')My particular example was talking about a 37% rate that essentially cannot be disputed.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')My particular example was talking about a 37% rate that essentially cannot be disputed.

[emersonbiggins]

Yeah, I've had these same numbers running through my head all night - looks like Tyler was right on.

No arguments here - we are being taxed to death!

[Ludi]

It seems like it tends to be the higher income earners who have the most problem paying their taxes. I certainly don't feel "taxed to death" though I do take advantage of available tax breaks like the Open Space Land Valuation. But higher income earners have more opportunity to take advantage of tax breaks because they can hire an accountant or at least a tax professional, it seems to me. They can also invest in more expensive properties, invest in retirement accounts, medical accounts, education accounts, charities, etc etc to exceed the standard deduction and take advantage of available tax credits.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'A')nd what's even more shocking is how small of a percentage of the US Federal Government Budget actually comes from income taxes...the rest of the difference is made up by way of the deficit (borrowing) of course.

Just imagine if the Balanced Budget Amendment was put into effect tomorrow...if you think the taxes are bad now, just think how much higher they'd have to be to balance the budget...whew!

I say we go with my idea with taxing the selling end of stock trades...let Wall Street pay our bills...LOL. And if traders don't wanna pay, they can just hold on to their stocks, can't they? (At least until it's gone up enough to cover the extra .5% of tax or whatever).

Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't be a good idea?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')IMHO, We should trying to encourage the funding of new start-up companies that will hire people for good jobs at good salaries, not figuring out new ways to tax and discourage private industry and the jobs it creates.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')IMHO, We should trying to encourage the funding of new start-up companies that will hire people for good jobs at good salaries, not figuring out new ways to tax and discourage private industry and the jobs it creates.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')IMHO, we should be encouraging the formation and funding of new companies and the concomitant creation of new, high-paying jobs through IPOs and stock sales rather then discouraging new companies from starting and expanding.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')IMHO, we should be encouraging the formation and funding of new companies and the concomitant creation of new, high-paying jobs through IPOs and stock sales rather then discouraging new companies from starting and expanding.

[Tyler_JC]

Has anyone tried to run my numbers and get a different result?

I keep messing around with it and finding a similar result.

The tax bill floats around $18,000/year for a $50,000 single income earner. It's 36% plus or minus a few points.

The insanity of it all is that 36% of the average worker's income isn't enough to balance the books. The entire US government (local, state, and federal) is staring at red ink as far as the eye can see. Government debt, at all levels, is growing rapidly.

And to make matters worse, tax revenues are crashing! Millions of people have lost their jobs and are now collecting unemployment. There are no more corporate profits to tax. There are no capital gains. Government deficits have exploded. We are looking at trillion dollar deficits for Obama's entire first term.

If the US were a South American country, the IMF would be b*tch slapping us around right now and demanding "structural adjustments".

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'H')as anyone tried to run my numbers and get a different result?

[The_Toecutter]

Eventually, Americans who earn enough to be taxed are going to stop paying income taxes if the abuses continue. It is bad enough that the 16th amendment wasn't even ratified with the proper number of states, worse still that wages are technically not income and thus from a constitutional standpoint not taxable(our government isn't going to punish itself for breaking the law though), and to add insult to injury, it's being used to launder money from the middle class and poor to the elite during an economic collapse where many formerly middle class now can't afford basic sustenance.

I wonder if our government would try to imprison what would be 50+ million who don't file or pay under such a hypothetical scenario...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'M')eanwhile, the key is to cut your expenses to the bone. Live in the cheapest place you can rent, buy only food and cut all but your internet connection and your cell phone for communication purposes. You can live on a pretty meager income this way, actually below the poverty line so you wouldn't pay any income tax at least.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tate and local sales-tax revenue fell more sharply in the fourth quarter of 2008 than at any time in the past half century, and has continued to erode through the beginning of 2009, according to a report released Tuesday.
...
State and local sales taxes, among the largest sources of revenue for municipalities, fell 6.1% in the fourth quarter of last year, as consumers bought fewer clothes, ate out less and canceled vacations. Revenue from personal income taxes was down 1.1% in the fourth quarter; corporate income taxes dropped 15.5%, reflecting weaker profits.

The declines have continued through the beginning of this year. In the first two months of 2009, the 41 states that have reported tax revenue saw total receipts decline 12.8%, versus the same period a year ago.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'E')ventually, Americans who earn enough to be taxed are going to stop paying income taxes if the abuses continue. It is bad enough that the 16th amendment wasn't even ratified with the proper number of states, worse still that wages are technically not income and thus from a constitutional standpoint not taxable(our government isn't going to punish itself for breaking the law though), and to add insult to injury, it's being used to launder money from the middle class and poor to the elite during an economic collapse where many formerly middle class now can't afford basic sustenance.

I wonder if our government would try to imprison what would be 50+ million who don't file or pay under such a hypothetical scenario...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'M')eanwhile, the key is to cut your expenses to the bone. Live in the cheapest place you can rent, buy only food and cut all but your internet connection and your cell phone for communication purposes. You can live on a pretty meager income this way, actually below the poverty line so you wouldn't pay any income tax at least.

[The_Toecutter]

In all likilihood, our government will force us to believe in this system at the point of a gun if necessary(as it has done to much of the third world from the 20th century onward). The bankers, oilies, arms race tycoons, politicians and their ilk are not going to relinquish their wealth and power so readily if there is anything to be learned from history. They will in all likilihood try to indenture us in order to pay back a sum that is impossible to repay, even if it means 1,000%+ interest rates to combat the hyperinflation that we may endure.

The American people are not going to peacefully accept this, either.

We have until, most optimistically, about 2018, before the national debt interest outweighs the entire federal budget; yet there is no end in sight to the spending.