Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sat 11 Apr 2009, 20:46:12

Looks like someone's been reading Julian Simon. :wink:

>>> Newsweek <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')...]

Yet the fact is that the world has faced all these issues before, and for the past 200 years, commodity prices have been trending downwards, thanks to new technologies, greater efficiency in extraction and the substitution of one commodity for another (which explains the high correlation between commodities prices). Bank Credit Analyst, a research firm based in Montreal, has data showing major industrial commodity prices are 75 percent below where they were in the year 1800, after adjusting for inflation. Despite all the worries over "peak oil," the fact is that the major bear markets in oil have been demand, rather than supply led. And when demand eventually picks up, there's usually some new alternative (nuclear energy, natural gas, green technologies) waiting to pick up some of the slack. The real price of oil today is now at the same level as in 1976 and, before that, in the 1870s, when oil was first put to mass use in the United States. This long-term price decline is due mainly to the constant discovery of new fields and greater energy efficiency, making nonsense of the idea that the world is rapidly running out of oil. The experience of the 1980s is instructive in the current context as well.

[...]

Both scenarios ignore history, which shows that only one commodity rises in an inflationary environment: gold. Other commodity prices tend to bloom only during the mature stages of a boom when the global economy overheats and demand briefly exceeds supply. At the moment, supply for nearly all commodities far outweighs demand, and likely will decline for at least the next couple of years.

[...]
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9589
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Cornucopia

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Sat 11 Apr 2009, 21:16:30

That writer needs to read, and understand, Nassim Nicholas Taleb. The set-up for a the past not being a reliable predictor of the future seems to be solidly in place.

TF
User avatar
TreeFarmer
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue 26 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby nobodypanic » Sat 11 Apr 2009, 23:35:43

"Despite all the worries over "peak oil," the fact is that the major bear markets in oil have been demand, rather than supply led."

what difference does that make?
User avatar
nobodypanic
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon 02 Jun 2008, 03:00:00

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby FireJack » Sat 11 Apr 2009, 23:57:09

I think it the typical "if we need it our ingenuity will find us more" thinking that most people seem to have.

Love this quote "And when demand eventually picks up, there's usually some new alternative (nuclear energy, natural gas, green technologies)." Yep all that natural gas will save us. It occurs to me that if the capital markets collapse and oil production collapses with it a lot of people are going to be asking "where the fuck is all that oil they said was everywhere." It's like sorry most of those claimed reserves were outright lies or it couldn't actually be extracted, and all that new technology just meant we got the oil faster but got less overall.
User avatar
FireJack
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed 16 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby Micki » Sun 12 Apr 2009, 04:36:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'T')hat writer needs to read, and understand, Nassim Nicholas Taleb. The set-up for a the past not being a reliable predictor of the future seems to be solidly in place.

TF

I would even argue that demand lead bear markets are BULLISH.
Reason - First of all it suggest the market hasn't been flooded with cheap oil. I took a dent in demand to get price to drop. What happens with demand? It recovers.

And "constant discovery of new fields" was when I decided not to waste my time clicking the link.
Micki
 

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 13 Apr 2009, 06:39:17

the long term inflation adjusted price for oil is approx $20

current price $50

580 of 800 largest oilfields declining in production

credit tight

70 million barrels burnt every day

60 million extra humans every year

hello!!

are the lights on ?
User avatar
kiwichick
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby The_Virginian » Tue 14 Apr 2009, 11:07:34

foolish qoute from a foolish person.

Comodities are (were) "cheap" becuase we had (have?) the cheap energy to extract them.

Simple substitution for machines vs. slaves / human labor.

Will this go on forever? Not likely.

Untill then...ENJOY!
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
User avatar
The_Virginian
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sat 19 Jun 2004, 03:00:00

Re: If It’s in the Ground, It Can Only Go Down

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 03 May 2009, 19:29:54

Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9589
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Cornucopia


Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron