[Quinny]

Your starting to wriggle here.

Your what-if's do not change facts they might push the date out by years, decades or even a millenium, but they don't change the premise.

I actually think your conspiracy theory approach has much more religious undertones than Peak Oil!

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')dited to add: I know that oil is finite, that it depletes, that there is a limit to population and growth, etc. However, this problem of resource depletion, while it is possible and real, will not actually happen, because the world will change before then. I don't argue that we are in for really hard times, feudalistic, but it won't be peak oil because that theory doesn't hold water in today's world.

[raisinbran]

[Quinny]

So when you can't answer points you resort to - cartoons?

[raisinbran]

If you tried to reason with an angry mob, do you think they would listen?

Hey, I'm just giving my viewpoints, that you don't agree with. But there are a lot of views on this thread, people not saying anything, so maybe someone is actually considering them.

But hey, i'm open to suggestions as to why I should believe peak oil?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', '
')But hey, i'm open to suggestions as to why I should believe peak oil?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', '
') But it won't happen in the real, actual world, I can assure you..

[Quinny]

Pstarr

Went to the effort of responding to the what-if's etc you wrote in some detail.

Responding with a cartoon means you either have no answers to the points he made, or you're not open to reason.

You are trying to put yourself forward as a voice of reason when your points have no evidence or fact behind them. I think you posts here would put you clearly with the mob carrying the torches, but you probably don't even 'get' the Simpsons!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', 'I')f you tried to reason with an angry mob, do you think they would listen?

Hey, I'm just giving my viewpoints, that you don't agree with. But there are a lot of views on this thread, people not saying anything, so maybe someone is actually considering them.

But hey, i'm open to suggestions as to why I should believe peak oil?

[Voice_du_More]

The theory is as rock solid as any in science, but the way it will play out in practice has alot of uncertainty. There is a chance we could make a relatively smooth transition away from fossil fuels it's just that the scale of an economy even with maximum use of all available alternatives would have to be smaller than what we now have with oil. But suppose some amazing new technology comes in, and we roll snake eyes ten times in a row, and...

Cornucopianism is an American cultural frailty. All nations rise and fall, how much more likely is it for a nation that has placed all it's eggs in one basket, requires serious cooperation from it's enemies just to get what it needs, and has started strong arming those who oppose it's plans to keep the spigots open?

The picture is decidedly skewed toward doom, if you are honest yourself.

I do believe that Peak Oil is becoming a religion. There are a growing number of people who have come into the issue through the rhetoric of proponents and do not really understand it. There are a growing number of sychophants and even a rather disturbing paparazzi surrounding some of the cult heroes of peak oil. It might be good advice, given that there is probably very little that can be done to change peak oil impacts to simply act as if it is all a lie and see what happens. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Voice_du_More', 't')he way it will play out in practice has alot of uncertainty. There is a chance we could make a relatively smooth transition away from fossil fuels

[vision-master]

Dolores Cannon

[Voice_du_More]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Voice_du_More', 'T')he theory is as rock solid as any in science, but the way it will play out in practice has alot of uncertainty. There is a chance we could make a relatively smooth transition away from fossil fuels it's just that the scale of an economy even with maximum use of all available alternatives would have to be smaller than what we now have with oil. But suppose some amazing new technology comes in, and we roll snake eyes ten times in a row, and...

Cornucopianism is an American cultural frailty. All nations rise and fall, how much more likely is it for a nation that has placed all it's eggs in one basket, requires serious cooperation from it's enemies just to get what it needs, and has started strong arming those who oppose it's plans to keep the spigots open?

The picture is decidedly skewed toward doom, if you are honest yourself.

I do believe that Peak Oil is becoming a religion. There are a growing number of people who have come into the issue through the rhetoric of proponents and do not really understand it. There are a growing number of sychophants and even a rather disturbing paparazzi surrounding some of the cult heroes of peak oil. It might be good advice, given that there is probably very little that can be done to change peak oil impacts to simply act as if it is all a lie and see what happens. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Voice_du_More', '
')PO.com has every hue of peakoil believer. You are being far too modest. TPTB made us do it I know, but can't we at least allow ourselves a little sunshine?

[raisinbran]

you know I'm not really interested in trying to dis-prove Peak Oil, in all honesty. I could pick apart pstarrs and your argument in exactly the same way he did mine, to point out flaws and points I already refuted, but what good would that do?

What I am interested in doing, and the point of my thread to begin with, is to sort of wave some flags to some of you guys that, to be honest, another observer looking into peak oil and its following, today, would really see something of a cult.

There are valid points being discussed. Overpopulation and finite resources are definitely an issue in the world, I won't argue that. Malthus has some interesting sociological ideas, and bell curve depletion is proven thoery.

But, as you have already acknowledged, it very well could turn out that peak oil will never occur at all like you think it will. I mean, we all can return to the dark ages back to stones, cattle and farming, BEFORE we ever get to the so called depletion point, the peak, but by then the world will be such a different place that the rules and trends that would cause a world-wide peak by today's standard would not exist at all.

But, you know, I've noticed that this is a fairly civilized community of posters, and there are some interesting, and fun posts on this board. I think it's a pretty cool place, and I can tell some really like the environment, the kind of people Peak Oil attracts. And I welcome this kind of comraderie.

But please, I implore you, to stop clinging on to the dogma of peak oil as though its absolute fact. If you are really interested in knowing what goes on in the world, yes, peak oil and the principles are a start, but you should probably think more in terms of the HUMAN element of the world, instead of the GEOLOGICAL/NATURAL. By human, I mean, just observe what leaders, politicians, bankers, generals, corporate CEOs are DOING, and try to figure out WHY they are doing it. The real world ranges from resources, to finances, to politics, to geopolitics, to mass psychology, to religion, to even existensial, and they they are all connected. Many of these clues can be found in history, REAL history, not just the "official history."

Peak Oil just focuses on resources as the most important consideration of the world, ignoring most of the rest.

I realize that I'm not being really specific, giving evidences to support what I am saying. I am doing this deliberately, so people who are open-minded can do their own research about what I am talking about.

[Quinny]

So - Peak oil will occur, just not how (I, Ludi, Pstarr, Shanny, MOS, RE, DaveP, JPL, Pret, Jack, SG etc etc etc..) think it will

So how do you think it will occur?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', 'y')ou know I'm not really interested in trying to dis-prove Peak Oil, in all honesty. I could pick apart pstarrs and your argument in exactly the same way he did mine, to point out flaws and points I already refuted, but what good would that do?

What I am interested in doing, and the point of my thread to begin with, is to sort of wave some flags to some of you guys that, to be honest, another observer looking into peak oil and its following, today, would really see something of a cult.

There are valid points being discussed. Overpopulation and finite resources are definitely an issue in the world, I won't argue that. Malthus has some interesting sociological ideas, and bell curve depletion is proven thoery.

But, as you have already acknowledged, it very well could turn out that peak oil will never occur at all like you think it will. I mean, we all can return to the dark ages back to stones, cattle and farming, BEFORE we ever get to the so called depletion point, the peak, but by then the world will be such a different place that the rules and trends that would cause a world-wide peak by today's standard would not exist at all.

But, you know, I've noticed that this is a fairly civilized community of posters, and there are some interesting, and fun posts on this board. I think it's a pretty cool place, and I can tell some really like the environment, the kind of people Peak Oil attracts. And I welcome this kind of comraderie.

But please, I implore you, to stop clinging on to the dogma of peak oil as though its absolute fact. If you are really interested in knowing what goes on in the world, yes, peak oil and the principles are a start, but you should probably think more in terms of the HUMAN element of the world, instead of the GEOLOGICAL/NATURAL. By human, I mean, just observe what leaders, politicians, bankers, generals, corporate CEOs are DOING, and try to figure out WHY they are doing it. The real world ranges from resources, to finances, to politics, to geopolitics, to mass psychology, to religion, to even existensial, and they they are all connected. Many of these clues can be found in history, REAL history, not just the "official history."

Peak Oil just focuses on resources as the most important consideration of the world, ignoring most of the rest.

I realize that I'm not being really specific, giving evidences to support what I am saying. I am doing this deliberately, so people who are open-minded can do their own research about what I am talking about.

[SeaGypsy]

Raisinbrain is 2 sandwiches short of a picnic.