[Olaf]

Another Upstater! Glad to see you here.

Olaf

[killJOY]

Jane, we're all going to suffer, but no one knows how, when, to what extent.

At least you have a farm.

We have a new American Milking Devon bullcalf. He will soon be our first ox.

[Heineken]

Hi Jane! Good to have people of your "milk" here (get it? A play on "ilk").

I like farmers and own a bit of land myself.

Don't move to the Dakotas; you're better off where you are.

I had an opportunity to move to upper NYS (St. Lawrence County) but wasn't quite able to swing it. Maybe it's just as well, since I'd have to wrest a small mountain of firewood out of the woods each year, and I'm getting old and creaky.

Anyway, moo and welcome.

[plainjane6476]

Thanks to all for the VERY warm welcome. I understand the biodiesel comments. I'm looking at biodiesel as an interim product that will buy me time to power down. I'm going to be brewing it from waste oil and I've found local rendering companies who have it readily available. You're right, it's not a solution, but I think it can ease us down to more sustainable farming.
And that brings me to something I've wondered about many times. How low will we go? Stone tools? Horsepower? Alternative powered tractors? The opinion in some of the other topics I've read looks pretty bleak. I tend to disagree with the worst case scenario. I think we are much smarter (some anyway) and can continue to innovate, communicate and find ways to live better than 1930 or 5000BC. How I wish I had a crystal ball....

And yes, Crowley is still here...interesting story about Crowley...
my filter slipped off and there was sediment in my milk one time.. 2 Kraft plants rejected the load, but the truck driver called Crowley... and they accepted it! Needless to say, I don't buy many Crowley products- LOL.

[kjmclark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('plainjane6476', 'T')hanks to all for the VERY warm welcome. I understand the biodiesel comments. I'm looking at biodiesel as an interim product that will buy me time to power down. I'm going to be brewing it from waste oil and I've found local rendering companies who have it readily available. You're right, it's not a solution, but I think it can ease us down to more sustainable farming.

[Schmuto]

Just about to get the first bovine for the doomstead . . .

Would like a heffer to keep, breed, milk.

Would like to raise all offspring for beef right here.

So the question is, is this possible? I look at pictures of Jerseys and they're all skin and bones, and I wonder whether crossing them with Angus or Hereford would make any sense.

Short horns appear to be another choice.

Obviously, cost of feeding is an issue.

Plenty of pasture.

All input appreciated.

Input from those who do/have done this is appreciated.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', 'J')ust about to get the first bovine for the doomstead . . .

Would like a heffer to keep, breed, milk.

Would like to raise all offspring for beef right here.

So the question is, is this possible? I look at pictures of Jerseys and they're all skin and bones, and I wonder whether crossing them with Angus or Hereford would make any sense.

Short horns appear to be another choice.

Obviously, cost of feeding is an issue.

Plenty of pasture.

All input appreciated.

Input from those who do/have done this is appreciated.

[SeaGypsy]

Miniatures are are great way to get started, easy to handle, efficient and safe with children or older people. These guys in NY seem to have the goods in a range of beef/ dairy blends.

http://www.minicattle.com/index.cfm?select=getstart

Googling miniature beef dairy breeds gets a lot of stuff.

[Homesteader]

We liked our Belted Galloway. Nice small, thrifty dual-purpose breed that has outstanding flavor. If you are getting a milk cow make sure you buy one that is able to be milked.

[TreeFarmer]

You need to talk to several cattle people and probably your local extension agent as well.

TF

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', 'W')e liked our Belted Galloway. Nice small, thrifty dual-purpose breed that has outstanding flavor. If you are getting a milk cow make sure you buy one that is able to be milked.

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'Y')ou need to talk to several cattle people and probably your local extension agent as well. TF

[oxj]

Brown Swiss all the way for milk, and tasty too. They grow quickly, reaching a 1000 pounds within the year. Do you live up here where it gets to -40 yearly? If so consider the Brown Swiss. I slept well at night when it was -40, not thinking about having to go out and run them.

Any dairy cow produces less meat but is generally considered to be tastier than a beef cow. Farmers around here usually wait for one of their cows to do the splits, then butcher her because "if she can't stand, she can't be sold." Lesson: keep your stalls clean.

Oh and the Brown Swiss, they produce milk-a-plenty, the highest fat variety like what is eaten in Europe. It is the cows that Europeans generally run, not the Holsteins like here. Holsteins produce more poundage with an amount of fat to satisfy the dairy (usually around 4.3% or so) while the Brown Swiss will give you up around 4.8. I recommend a good breeder, get your cow from someone like Kruse's, because then you can more easily sell it if you have to. Yes, most farmers mostly buy nonregistered animals but you get the most at an auction with something registered.

We bought our calf during peak two years ago (this is actually trough time for the cost of cows) at $1100 per calf. Feeding them generally runs about $350 per year, we can sell them now for about $2000 which wouldn't make any money after comissions etc.

Kruse's: http://www.kruseswiss.com/
Other breeders: http://www.brownswissusa.com/breeders.asp

To get these numbers you need good hay and plenty of it. We find mixed alfalfa and red clover does nicely, be sure to top it with manure and your wood ashes yearly. Any other questions just pm me, btw, what state are you in? This is Wisconsin here. Oh and don't get your cow fat because then there's dystocia and other problems just like in humans.

-the ox

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oxj', 'B')rown Swiss all the way for milk, and tasty too. They grow quickly, reaching a 1000 pounds within the year. Do you live up here where it gets to -40 yearly? If so consider the Brown Swiss. I slept well at night when it was -40, not thinking about having to go out and run them.

-the ox

[oxj]

Oh I edited my post after you posted so look above.

-the ox

[vtsnowedin]

There are a lot of good breeds to choose from. Even more if you consider cross breeds.
The brown Swiss are indeed a good all around breed and would serve you well.
As to beef flavor, the Jerseys and Guernseys though strictly dairy breeds have a yellow fat that gives them a distinctly good flavor and the meat is called coloured beef. Nothing better tasting then a properly fattened bull or steer of these breeds.
Ayrshires are very hardy and do well on rough ground and taste good while providing plentiful milk. They tend to have short teats which makes them hard to milk by hand. I had one first calf heifer that I could only milk while her calf was working the other side. As soon as he lost interest and moved away she would kick me through the wall.
Angus are excellent beef and can drop a calf in a snow storm that flourishes but they tend to be mean and otherwise unhandy.
The Holsteins have a fat that tastes like tallow and sticks to the roof of your mouth and cows will produce over 100 lbs a day of milk which may only test 2% butter fat. Not at all what your looking for.
Then there are the crosses.
Holstein -Jersey are common as they breed Holstein heifers to Jersey to get a small first calf. These make excellent family cows and the calves can be bought cheap. They have hybrid vigor but for some reason the second generation does not breed true so prolonging a line isnt worthwhile.
Holstein- Hereford makes excellent beef and a cow will usually produce enough milk for a families needs. Very docile as a rule.
Hereford -Jersey Good beef with some color and plenty of milk. Watch out for the bulls though. They behave like jerseys with their short fuse while hiding behind that white face disguise.
lots of others of course some suited for particular climates more then others but as I haven't raised them I'll leave them to others .

[Homesteader]

Keep in mind that cows, even usually docile ones, hurt people all the time. The smaller the cow the less likely that the foot-stomping, hip-checking, and general ass-kicking will result in serious injury.

[Schmuto]

Homesteader and VTS - nice tips. THanks.

The thought of a Jersey cross makes a lot of sense to me.

If I bought a Jersey X Angus or a Jersey X Hereford, then could I expect to have a milker that would produce at least a gallon a day for the family, that wouldn't be too tough to milk, and that wouldn't be dangerous?

The cross seems like a good idea because then I could breed her with straight Angus or Hereford semen and the babies would be 3/4 pure beef animal.

I'm in Northern PA - Hardiness zone 5-6 ish. Snow cover 4-5 months of winter (off the lake).

I like the idea of a Brown Swiss, but I have a concern that the size would be much more than I need - I have a USDA study that shows that BSwiss X Hereford or Angus produces an animal that is almost indistinguishable in meat quality with straight Here or Angus, but with more bones and a bit bigger.

Would I save money on hay if I went with the Jersey X (angus/Here) because it would probably be 700 or so pounds rather than the 1000 or more of a Brown Swiss?

Would the total months of the year milk production be different?

I called my local extension office and the woman who picked up made it clear she didn't want to talk to me and rushed me and told me to call back tomorrow. Geez, I hate dealing with people like that.

Thanks for all the help so far!!

[Homesteader]

A Jersey-Angus cross sounds like a good idea if you can find one raised to be hand-milked. You may have to start with a calf and raise her yourself.

An issue with some of the smaller breeds (like our Galloway) is they cannot be bred to Angus or Herefords. The calf would be to big for them to birth it. Being able to breed with a local and not have to rely on the AI guy may be an advantage in a few yearrs. Depends on your situation.

We had Guernseys when I was growing up which is a bit bigger than a Jersey, so no problem breeding them to beef breeds.

Interesting fact: When one old Guernsey milk cow got to old (15 y.o. as I recall) we put her in the freezer. Her steaks were some of the most tender beef I've ever had. Fat was yellow, but that wasn't a problem for hungry teenagers.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', 'H')omesteader and VTS - nice tips. THanks.

The thought of a Jersey cross makes a lot of sense to me.

If I bought a Jersey X Angus or a Jersey X Hereford, then could I expect to have a milker that would produce at least a gallon a day for the family, that wouldn't be too tough to milk, and that wouldn't be dangerous?

The cross seems like a good idea because then I could breed her with straight Angus or Hereford semen and the babies would be 3/4 pure beef animal.

I'm in Northern PA - Hardiness zone 5-6 ish. Snow cover 4-5 months of winter (off the lake).

I like the idea of a Brown Swiss, but I have a concern that the size would be much more than I need - I have a USDA study that shows that BSwiss X Hereford or Angus produces an animal that is almost indistinguishable in meat quality with straight Here or Angus, but with more bones and a bit bigger.

Would I save money on hay if I went with the Jersey X (angus/Here) because it would probably be 700 or so pounds rather than the 1000 or more of a Brown Swiss?

Would the total months of the year milk production be different?

I called my local extension office and the woman who picked up made it clear she didn't want to talk to me and rushed me and told me to call back tomorrow. Geez, I hate dealing with people like that.

Thanks for all the help so far!!