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Asperger's Syndrome

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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 12:54:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '
')When you define disorders by behavior, and not by physical chemistry, then you must incorporate all influences on the development of that behavior when you assess it.



This is the case with other mental disorders. None that I know of are diagnosed with "physical chemistry." Some may be detected with brain scans, often not.

Both my sister and I were raised by a full-time mom and grandmother, so either mom or grandma was in the home 100% of the time we were growing up. We are both mentally ill, my sister severely so. We had what I consider a pretty damn good childhood.


Just sayin'.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 14:24:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'W')hat did we do before drugs and tv?


weed and cave paintings....... :lol:
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby WildRose » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 19:20:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '
')

Rose - I don't agree.

A mother's place is with her children. Period.

The last 30-40 years have been a great experiment in what happens when mothers are not with their children.

The result is a freaking mess.

I know that's not what feminists want to hear, but that's my conclusion, and I don't know how the data can be reasonably construed any other way.

My advice to women: If you want to have a career, work, etcetera, that's fantastic. I completely support your right to be CEO of megacorp and do whatever it is that you want to do.

However, please don't have children.


But you're overlooking another option.

What we did in our home was work opposite hours to each other - me home in the daytime with the kids, then working part-time in the evening. Hubby was home the evenings I was working. Always one of us with our children. We still work it that way, and our kids are almost 23, almost 18 and almost 15. That way, one parent is always available to talk to, or help with the many situations kids need help with, including rides at 2 a.m. This has worked out quite well for us, and I know a lot of parents who have the same type of arrangement. It can be a little harder on the marriage as you have to really work at time for each other. We've had a few rough years of juggling schedules with my hubby working out of town (usually not more than a few days, but sometimes a week at a time), during which I've curtailed my hours, working only on the weekends. But I've been very fortunate to have the flexibility from my employer to do just that.

There are workable solutions. A dad can be just as good as a mom with the kids. Our daughter has fond memories of sharing suppers with her dad when she was a little girl and I was at work (her brothers hadn't come along yet!) and she had her dad all to herself. Now, he'll pick her up from work some nights and they have a good chat on the way home. Our sons are equally comfortable with mom and dad. Young parents, think of your unique situation and how you can meet your family's needs. Our kids have always been the focus of our lives, their friends have always been welcome in our home and spend much time here, and we have enjoyed countless outings with them all. As they get older, hubby and I have bits of time together more often and take full advantage of those opportunities. I don't think I'd change the way we worked it all out.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby Schmuto » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 20:32:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '
')

Rose - I don't agree.

A mother's place is with her children. Period.

The last 30-40 years have been a great experiment in what happens when mothers are not with their children.

The result is a freaking mess.

I know that's not what feminists want to hear, but that's my conclusion, and I don't know how the data can be reasonably construed any other way.

My advice to women: If you want to have a career, work, etcetera, that's fantastic. I completely support your right to be CEO of megacorp and do whatever it is that you want to do.

However, please don't have children.


But you're overlooking another option.

What we did in our home was work opposite hours to each other - me home in the daytime with the kids, then working part-time in the evening. Hubby was home the evenings I was working. Always one of us with our children. We still work it that way, and our kids are almost 23, almost 18 and almost 15. That way, one parent is always available to talk to, or help with the many situations kids need help with, including rides at 2 a.m. This has worked out quite well for us, and I know a lot of parents who have the same type of arrangement. It can be a little harder on the marriage as you have to really work at time for each other. We've had a few rough years of juggling schedules with my hubby working out of town (usually not more than a few days, but sometimes a week at a time), during which I've curtailed my hours, working only on the weekends. But I've been very fortunate to have the flexibility from my employer to do just that.

There are workable solutions. A dad can be just as good as a mom with the kids. Our daughter has fond memories of sharing suppers with her dad when she was a little girl and I was at work (her brothers hadn't come along yet!) and she had her dad all to herself. Now, he'll pick her up from work some nights and they have a good chat on the way home. Our sons are equally comfortable with mom and dad. Young parents, think of your unique situation and how you can meet your family's needs. Our kids have always been the focus of our lives, their friends have always been welcome in our home and spend much time here, and we have enjoyed countless outings with them all. As they get older, hubby and I have bits of time together more often and take full advantage of those opportunities. I don't think I'd change the way we worked it all out.


I agree this can be done with a decent percentage of men, and preferably older men - we did this.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby bodigami » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 00:26:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'W')hat did we do before drugs and tv?


hmm... I think drugs have a history of millenia.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby Daphne64 » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 17:36:57

Wikipedia is not a bad place to start researching stuff, but keep in mind it can be skewed by people that are persistent in objecting to others' input, and putting in their own.

Wikipedia's entries on autism are extremely biased against the view that autism is caused by environmental poisoning, and cured by biomedical treatments. (Also, Wikipedia's entries on Mark and David Geier and Andrew Wakefield are pure smearjobs. )

I subscribe to the Schafer autism report, and there is a continuing stream of very boring-to-read medical abstracts about the differences in brain scans (and many other areas) between AS folk and neurotypical folk.

PS If you have any evidence that my view on ADHD / food dye intolerance is incorrect, please point us to the evidence. Don't keep it a secret.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', ' ')the statement Schmuto made was wrong.


The statement that Doc Schmuto made was actually taken from Wikipedia.

"The exact cause is unknown, although research supports the likelihood of a genetic basis; brain imaging techniques have not identified a clear common pathology.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Very simple. The only way you can "know" that somebody has this is to observe behavior.

When you define disorders by behavior, and not by physical chemistry, then you must incorporate all influences on the development of that behavior when you assess it.

They have not proven a genetic basis and they have not shown a common pathology.

Consequently, you have nothing other than behavior and a label.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby JPL » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 19:02:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daphne64', 'W')ikipedia's entries on autism are extremely biased against the view that autism is caused by environmental poisoning, and cured by biomedical treatments.


Exactly the problem. There is a divergence in the literature between those that looking for an explanation of this 'illness' (and implicit in that has to be a 'cure' I guess) and those that are trying to understand the syndrome from ground-up.

Obviously I come from the latter group but I think that I can speak for a lot of Aspies and say that if there was a cure for offered to me tomorrow, I would not take the pills. You see, I would not be 'myself', I would be some-one different - at my age I don't think that is something I could cope with.

As an interesting aside I shared a bus journey a few days ago with a lovely couple - both in their 60's, a husband and wife that had Downs' syndrome. They both had the physical symptoms, and were obviously quite different from everyone else; but they were beautifully turned out, and had 'a system'. They knew exactly where they were going.

I thought at the time, yea, I need to put my own issues into perspective here. AS can give you minor social problems but compared with other problems you could have, yea, I'll stick with me. Sometimes life make you think...

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The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby turner » Sun 22 Mar 2009, 10:38:42

My sister-in-law Fiona is a beautiful person and an excellent mother, and in fact I have willed her as my chilldren's guardian in the event that my husband and I die together. Fiona has a son that has always been "different", and she has struggled to deal with him over the last 9 years. Teachers have suggested that he has behavioural issues, or ADD ,or Autism, but Fiona has resisted a diagnosis because she hasn't wanted him to be labelled, and she is adverse to drugs as a solution. Over the years she has dealt with her son's issues but also her husband's inability to understand why she, as a stay at home mom, hasn't been able to achieve better things with him.
Recently, he has been diagnosed with Aspergers and this " labelling " has resulted in huge relief for the family as a whole. In the past Dad was pre-occupied with discipline, homework and compliance. Upon receiving the diagnosis they entered into counselling and training in how to deal with Michael's "issues". Dad actually realised that he himself had Aspergers and then understood not only his child, but also himself. He is 40 years old.

Michael is not on any drugs but the strategies the Aspergers professionals have given to the family have made a marked difference to his progress. The Dad has also been able to understand that his own style was counterproductive to Michael's progress, and equally to his relationship with his wife.The "Dad" is my husband's brother and over 27 years I have got to know him very well, in addition to his 5 brothers. I've lived with 4 of them and I understand what makes them tick. There is an element of Aspergers in all of them. I might mention that their mother was at home, they ate well, exercised well and watched very minimal tv.
I can see elements of Aspergers in my own twin boys. I spent their early life avoiding social events and apologising for their behaviour. I endured years of advice from other people about my supposed lack of discipline but I knew deep down that wasn't the issue. I'm happier now, as I understand that their behaviour is not my 'fault', but just the way they are. Interestingly, I don't assume that my daughter who is agreeable, highly motivated, and high achieving with do any better in life than the boys. They have a certain intangible 'something' that may take them to great heights (or lows), but that is in the lap of the gods.

I find it quite sad to see the degree of lack of understand and judgement on this forum. Perhaps you need to know someone to believe in Aspergers? For those disbelievers I would like to convey that the opinions I have expressed here correspond with those of my good friend who is a teacher of children with Aspergers and Autism.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 24 Mar 2009, 01:19:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turner', ' ')Dad actually realised that he himself had Aspergers and then understood not only his child, but also himself. He is 40 years old . . . . in addition to his 5 brothers. I've lived with 4 of them and I understand what makes them tick. There is an element of Aspergers in all of them. . . .
I can see elements of Aspergers in my own twin boys.

I'm happier now, as I understand that their behaviour is not my 'fault', but just the way they are.



Thank you for your post. You could not have provided a "poster child" presentation that was more supportive of what I was proposing.

According to you, everybody has some aspect of Aspergers, including your boys, your brother in law, and his 4 brothers, me, St. Paul, Jesus of Nazareth, Ted Bundy, Clifford the Big Red Dog, and Archie and Jughead, and you feel better about your boys' lack of self control because, despite a-holes like me telling you that you should have spanked them and been more of a disciplinarian, you now realize that their poor behavior is not, in fact, your fault, but, rather, it is their fault because their brains are faulty.

Well done, and thank you.

My thesis - Aspergers and ADD type diagnosis are for most people (not Shanny's husband who is unique and who remembers events in a clearly non-standard fashion) simply modern society's method of assuaging the guilt that comes with being a sh-tty parent who allowed his/her children to run rough shod over them or who abandoned them to daycare.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby turner » Tue 24 Mar 2009, 05:33:28

Well we don't all have Aspergers but one trait we all share as humans is the ability to take pieces from each other's statements and craft them into our own argument!

The three crucial point here were 1) that the mothers of all these men/boys were at home and engaged, 2) the prevalence of like behaviours in this family seem suggestive of a genetic link, and 3) contrary to popular belief this family was aided by a diagnosis.

People can take whatever they want from my little story - Schmuto I didn't expect you to agree but maybe just consider a different perspective.
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Re: Aspergers Syndrome

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 24 Mar 2009, 11:51:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')eople who think they know everything and that all humans are the same pass judgment in ignorance.


You know that's not what I wrote or implied.
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