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Steam generator

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Steam generator

Unread postby simplelife » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 22:29:20

I am wondering why there are no small steam electric generators for sale that run off firewood?
I would think there would be a nich market, survivalist types who live in rural ereas with abundant hardwoods could have cheap relliabel energy.

Would it take too much wood and thus be unsustainable?
I seems more atractive to me than solar for those in isolated off grid ereas.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby Arsenal » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 22:43:46

This guy made his own.

Otherpower.com

Might be a really good backup plan.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 23:43:51

I did a pile of research on this.
A skilled fitter& turner can reconfigure a 2 cylinder (or more) petrol engine to run a 2 cycle steam drive. The crank timing needs to be completely reset. ie. cut up& reassembled. Boiler needs to be super strong, with safety gauge and valves.
I haven't time to dig a link right now but google will get you there.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby WisJim » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 00:01:26

There are some out there. They are expensive because boilers that can pass safety inspections are expensive.
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/aeindex.htm#steam

There was someone offering turnkey units for sale at the MREA Energy Fair in Wisconsin a few years ago, but they weren't cheap, and they take a lot of attention when running.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby truecougarblue » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 00:07:58

I think Jay leno has an antique that runs on gas. Google Jay Leno's garage. He also has a Stanley steamer.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby retiredguy » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 10:51:21

Now, if a way could be found to capture the waste heat, we would have an interesting CHP system.

Not sure my neighbors would enjoy the sounds of a functioning steam engine, though.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 11:02:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('simplelife', 'I') am wondering why there are no small steam electric generators for sale that run off firewood?
I would think there would be a nich market, survivalist types who live in rural ereas with abundant hardwoods could have cheap relliabel energy.

Would it take too much wood and thus be unsustainable?
I seems more atractive to me than solar for those in isolated off grid ereas.


In order for steam to produce ele it must operate under high pressure. Lot's of water treatment needed and know how with the operation of the unit. Most States require a high pressure engineer 24/7 being no further than 100 ft away at all times. You get a leak on a high pressure vessel, put your arm in harms way and it will be cut off.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') boiler that has a loss of feed water and is permitted to boil dry can be extremely dangerous. If feed water is then sent into the empty boiler, the small cascade of incoming water instantly boils on contact with the superheated metal shell and leads to a violent explosion that cannot be controlled even by safety steam valves. Draining of the boiler could also occur if a leak occurred in the steam supply lines that was larger than the make-up water supply could replace. The Hartford Loop was invented in 1919 by the Hartford Steam Boiler and Insurance Company as a method to help prevent this condition from occurring, and thereby reduce their insurance claims.[5]


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '5')225.0400 BASIC LICENSE REQUIREMENT AND DUTY.
No person shall have charge of as the engineer or operate any boiler or boiler plant who does not possess a license of the class required to operate the boiler or boiler plant.

It is the duty of the owner of a boiler or boiler plant and the chief engineer and all boiler inspectors, including those employed by insurance companies, to promptly report to the chief boiler inspector, any boiler or boiler plant in which the engineer has no license or a license of a lower class than that required by law for the horsepower of the boiler or boiler plant.

Subp. 6.Requirements for Grade A licensure.The requirements for a Grade A license are:

A.Second Class: one year of operating experience on a high pressure boiler, documented as described in subpart 9, which must include one year of operation of a steam engine or turbine.

B.First Class: three years of operating experience on a high pressure boiler, documented as described in subpart 9, of which at least two years must include operation of a steam engine or turbine.

C.Chief Class: five years of operating experience on a high pressure boiler, documented as described in subpart 9, including at least two years of operation of a steam engine or turbine.

Subp. 7.[Repealed, 18 SR 614]

Subp. 8.Hobby operating engineer license experience and documentation.
A.Experience. An applicant for a hobby operating engineer license must have at least 25 hours operating experience on a steam traction engine or hobby boiler under the supervision of an operating engineer.


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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby oiless » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 23:58:00

Water tube boilers tend to be a lot safer, (less volume of water to flash to steam if there is a failure) but the water treatment is finicky.
Water treatment is finicky with fire tube boilers as well, but not as critical as with water tube boilers. Poor water treatment can scale up the super heat section of a water tube in no time at all.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 09:00:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', 'W')ater tube boilers tend to be a lot safer, (less volume of water to flash to steam if there is a failure) but the water treatment is finicky.
Water treatment is finicky with fire tube boilers as well, but not as critical as with water tube boilers. Poor water treatment can scale up the super heat section of a water tube in no time at all.


Hot water boilers to spin a turbine? I know my knowlegde is old school.
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Re: Steam generator

Unread postby oiless » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 19:27:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', 'W')ater tube boilers tend to be a lot safer, (less volume of water to flash to steam if there is a failure) but the water treatment is finicky.
Water treatment is finicky with fire tube boilers as well, but not as critical as with water tube boilers. Poor water treatment can scale up the super heat section of a water tube in no time at all.


Hot water boilers to spin a turbine? I know my knowlegde is old school.


No. High pressure steam boilers. Fire tube boilers have a large volume of water in them, (they are basically a big thick walled tank mostly full of water, with fire tubes running through them) water tube boilers have a smaller volume of water in the tubes and the heat source is outside the tubes.
If a fire tube boiler has a shell failure (very uncommon, but it does happen) all the water in it flashes to steam. You end up with an explosion and a large volume of released steam.
If a water tube boiler has a tube failure the results tend not to be as catastrophic, and failures are very rare because tubes are inherently strong and the diameter of the steam drum and mud drums is small.
A disadvantage of water tube boilers is that your water treatment has to be very good.
Advantages: Less chance of dangerous failure, very fast steam time, little refractory to maintain.
I've run a 150hp Cleaver Brookes Model 5 water tube side by side with a 150hp Cleaver Brookes CBW scotch dryback. The dryback takes close to an hour from cold to 125 psig. The water tube takes about 10 minutes from cold to 125 psig. The model 5 holds somewhere around 1300 lbs of water, the dryback something over 8000 lbs.
The dryback is a big heavy monster, the water tube quite compact and light. (By comparison.)
I could be wrong, but I believe the origin of the first water tube designs was probably the push to develop light, fast steaming boilers for steam cars.
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