[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '[')b]In Asia everyone has an oldie in the house.

It's no big deal when everyone does it.

The oldies are properly adjusted to it though; they are much better at relinquishing power when the time comes.

I love the extended family thing here; it can be testy but it does work if all participants know their role.

The tendency of parents in the west is to keep trying to parent adult children.
In Asia the last say is from the breadwinner of the house. That's it ; final.

[eastbay]

http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/ ... 38064.html


A recent article in the Straits Times about it.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')hat annoying racial stereotype is getting old. The Age of Oil is fast putting an end to that ancient once-universal tradition. Ask anyone who lives in the wealthier areas, such as HK or Singapore. The Age of Oil did for North Americans and it's doing the same throughout Asia. Gramps and granny are increasingly getting dropped in a low rent apartment with an inexpensive maid.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')orry Eastbay, you are correct and I should have qualified my statement; in rural Asia.....I have spent no time in any cities in several years, I've never been to Manila, I fly in and out through Pampanga. In the provincial areas it's a serious shame job to abandon parents; or neglect them.

[TWilliam]

I think you have it a bit backwards however, eastbay. What the Age of Oil has encouraged, especially in the capitalist system built upon it, is the hyper-individualization of people. A house filled with extended family doesn't need twenty televisions and twenty dinette sets and twenty of this and twenty of that (not to mention nineteen more houses to build and mortgage and create hallucinated wealth upon). And parents have played right along with that trend by raising their kids to be good little capitalist consumers. Strictly speaking, they brought the abandonment upon themselves by teaching their progeny that life's major meaning resides in material acquisition and consumption, not in human bonds. In my estimation that is a form of neglect. Why should it surprise anyone that it is returned in kind?

[threadbear]

Actually Heineken has gone against the cultural grain, by moving in with his parents, and looking after them, so they didn't have to go into assisted living.

Pretorian--I agree with your assessment of some of the elderly being warehoused and the examples you site are deeply disturbing. Heineken's situation is far different, though, and I think it's narrow of you to juxtapose what amounts to a quick cultural snap shot, over a multi layered complex situation.

As far as your wondering if the property I sold recently was my parents--uhh no. Right now, I'm dealing with my own parental situation. My mother and father are living in a really nice condo in the city, a 2 hour ferry ride, 1 hour drive, away. My father, 81, is almost bedridden with pain, and on heavy opiates. He managed pretty well, when my mother was well. My mother has been given a tentative diagnosis of Creutzfeld Jacob disease, a rapidly progressing form of dementia.

I have to be ready at a moment's notice to drop everything, hop on a float plane, and get over there, in the event of an emergency. This has happened twice in the last month. My siblings are working, but doing their level best, spending as much time as possible with my parents. They have someone coming in 4 hours a day to cook, clean, etc..., too.

The goal is to keep my mother and father together, in their condo, for as long as possible. You have no idea the issues that come up with dementia. What do you do with a parent who refuses to eat, won't take meds, won't bathe, etc...? Should we hog tie my mother, and cram spoonfuls of food down her throat, if the anti-pyschotics quit working their magic? You seem to be the expert, so you tell me, what would you do? It's easy to judge, but you better know the specifics before you launch on somebody about this particular issue.

[Pretorian]

Threadbear, as I said I have no problem with people putting their parents in nursing homes. But I am pretty sure many of old folks get there way before they are demented enough to lose ability to spend money with a joy.
I'm kinda worried with these modern dementias in elderly. I spend a good part of my childhood in villages and don't remember anyone out of his mind because of age. My grandma had a sharp mind and a good memory at her 86, and was as sarcastic as I am now.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'T')hreadbear, as I said I have no problem with people putting their parents in nursing homes. But I am pretty sure many of old folks get there way before they are demented enough to lose ability to spend money with a joy.
I'm kinda worried with these modern dementias in elderly. I spend a good part of my childhood in villages and don't remember anyone out of his mind because of age. My grandma had a sharp mind and a good memory at her 86, and was as sarcastic as I am now.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'S')orry to hear about that, Heiny. I guess she got cold feet when it finally sunk in, huh? That burns me up about the $3000 "fee", though...perhaps a call to a local attorney might be in order? (Can't hurt, why not?)
I keep thinking about the post 2020-era, when such things as assisted living homes, nursing homes and even most hospitals will be nothing more than empty shells, with just rats, possums and raccoons taking up residence in them, as opposed to millions of our elderly. What will become of all those people then?
Just mind-blowing to even think of such a thing, made even more dramatic when you think about how all of this is drawing ever so closer...

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'L')ook I know that its an American tradition to kick your kids out once they are 18 and stash away your parents ( I assume as a retaliation) once they become old enough to be a problem. I have no problem with that. I see plenty of children/parents bickering/sueing each other over a $100, ratting each other out to whomever. Frankly I believe parents who raised kids like that deserve to be stashed away.
What startles me is this attitude with which these kids want to take over someone elses money/property while rightful owners are still alive. What in the world makes them think the elderly parent wouldnt prefer to sell it all, rent a nice house and have a live-in nurse/companion/own cook/maid where they will be a bit more than a piece of rotting old meat? Or use their estate in any other way?
I remember a story from 10+ years ago, when one 78 or 80 yo ole lady decided to sell her apartment and spend money on travelling around the world. She had never been anywhere before. You won't believe the extents her relatives went to prevent her from doing this .
Finally, one doesnt have to be a relative to become an heir. What if I will show up at Heine's place when his Alzheimer's will start to kick in, let him sign some papers and send him off to his father's nursing home, while taking over the place, his Krugerrands and his Pinoy wife? I hope noone got a problem with that? I mean, if you are to be robbed&fuck.ed, wouldnt it be nicer to be robbed&fuck.ed by a stranger than by your own kids?

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')he pity with all of this is the lack of any kind of kindness from certain posters to Heineken. I feel he is a particularly honest and fearless person who lets slip details of his personal life because this is his family here. He feels it is safe to tell us all what he is going through, even the ugly stuff. How many other posters have this kind of courage and trust?
For those who reveal nothing of the kind to come out picking holes in the man is nothing short of wimpy.
Perhaps Heineken will get the girl and look after his Mum and his dog and end up happy? If this is as a result of his courage in showing himself; was that a mistake? I believe every mature human has made mistakes in life and learned by them. Those hiding behind barricades throwing Molotov's at such a person should be ashamed of themselves.

[blukatzen]

Heineken my friend, I just want you to know that I am here for you, as much as *I* can be, and the most important thing that I can do right now is listen to you, and send you, and your noble aged parents, my prayers.
How is your father faring? For your mother, can her physician give her a home health care nurse who visits several times a week? (bathes them, takes vitals, etc.) and reports to the doctor. It enables them to live in thier home, saves the family gobs of money, and they don't have to give up their living arrangements. I did this with my 2 aunts. Is this possible? Also, if she has trouble walking, along with the home health care nurse, they do send out physical therapists or occupational therapists for either 1. enabling the home to the new situation the senior needs. This might include safety bars, seats (removable shower benches), etc. at the bath area, with a personal hose attachment for bathing.
2. If they *can* get around, the occuptational therapist looks at the daily routine, and what is needed to get done by the senior, and amends this/or teaches them how to do something better, in a better position.
There are arthitic jar openers, stick "reachers", etc. a whole line of things you'd never think about to help those who are seniors, with decreased mobility, or sight.

I know YOU do a lot of this, but having those other people there takes the grievance by the mother OFF of you, and that they get "doctor's orders" to do something. It is a pressure reliever OFF of the caretaker.

How do you find out about these things? Call either the doctor, or he can put you in touch with your county's Senior services social worker. (they must maintain this).
They can put you in touch with what is available in your area. You need NOT go broke.

And yippee, you still have hot water. Look at the bright side.

If you need anymore help, you know I'm only a phone call away, or a pm away, my friend.

XO,
Blu

[Sixstrings]

This thread reminds me of a situation my stepfather was in at one time. He was 70 years old himself at the time, and a tad forgetful. His mother had alzheimers. He went through a lot of hoops to get a home health aide to start coming by a couple times a week.

Well, he got one and patted himself on the back. Then the aid said his mother was dehyrdrated and reported him to social services! I may have the story wrong, but the way my stepfather told it, I think even a cop questioned him. All I remember for sure was that there was a period of time that my step father was very worried about behind charged with elder abuse.

As for being dehydrated.. my step father isn't a medical professional. He tried to get her drink throughout the day, and she refused to drink quite often. But since he's old himself and again, not a medical professional, he had no idea she was technically dehyrdrated.

Shortly after this episode he made the decision that she had to go into a nursing home.

The moral of this story is that quite often, good deeds and genuine efforts don't go unpunished. There's actually a big liability you take on when you care for a disabled / elderly person. You may think you're doing a good job, but you may just land yourself in hot water if a social worker doesn't agree.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')If I'm guilty of anything, it's of trying to get a life for myself while I still have a little time left.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')s for being dehydrated.. my step father isn't a medical professional. He tried to get her drink throughout the day, and she refused to drink quite often. But since he's old himself and again, not a medical professional, he had no idea she was technically dehyrdrated.

[blukatzen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')s for being dehydrated.. my step father isn't a medical professional. He tried to get her drink throughout the day, and she refused to drink quite often. But since he's old himself and again, not a medical professional, he had no idea she was technically dehyrdrated.

[threadbear]

thanks, Blu. I find many of your suggestions very helpful.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', 'H')eineken my friend, I just want you to know that I am here for you, as much as *I* can be, and the most important thing that I can do right now is listen to you, and send you, and your noble aged parents, my prayers.
How is your father faring? For your mother, can her physician give her a home health care nurse who visits several times a week? (bathes them, takes vitals, etc.) and reports to the doctor. It enables them to live in thier home, saves the family gobs of money, and they don't have to give up their living arrangements. I did this with my 2 aunts. Is this possible? Also, if she has trouble walking, along with the home health care nurse, they do send out physical therapists or occupational therapists for either 1. enabling the home to the new situation the senior needs. This might include safety bars, seats (removable shower benches), etc. at the bath area, with a personal hose attachment for bathing.
2. If they *can* get around, the occuptational therapist looks at the daily routine, and what is needed to get done by the senior, and amends this/or teaches them how to do something better, in a better position.
There are arthitic jar openers, stick "reachers", etc. a whole line of things you'd never think about to help those who are seniors, with decreased mobility, or sight.

I know YOU do a lot of this, but having those other people there takes the grievance by the mother OFF of you, and that they get "doctor's orders" to do something. It is a pressure reliever OFF of the caretaker.

How do you find out about these things? Call either the doctor, or he can put you in touch with your county's Senior services social worker. (they must maintain this).
They can put you in touch with what is available in your area. You need NOT go broke.

And yippee, you still have hot water. Look at the bright side.

If you need anymore help, you know I'm only a phone call away, or a pm away, my friend.

XO,
Blu