Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 03:34:31

This is a crackpot idea for some people, that somehow all of this fits into nature's 'Plan'.
But to me Gaia makes more and more sense as we hit the wall in growth.

The points I consider most relevant to this view:

We have done enough damage.

We have reset the carbon equation.

We have spread ourselves around the planet, from pole to pole and mixed up the races nicely; aiding genetic diversity for our species.

What about the other idea: that some people have known die off is about to occur anyhow and have begun to act to ensure their family and friends are amongst the survivors?

The easiest way for them to do this seems to run fairly close to what has been happening so far during the collapse. The principle being, if 'We' can orchestrate a rapid collapse while there are still quite a lot of resources available; might 'We' be able to not just survive but keep our technologically rich lifestyle to some extent?

Am I nuts? :(
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby alokin » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 04:30:04

If it's like this then I hope for a extra portion of gaia's revenge that falls exactly on their heads!
User avatar
alokin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 04:52:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Am I nuts? :(


Yep.

"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
mos6507
 

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 06:59:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Am I nuts? :(


Yep.

"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"


Can not incompetence and malice be combined in the same man? The "Dear Leader in North Korea comes to mind. :roll:
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby AgentR » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 09:31:34

I've always thought, that if there were were a Gaia, she wouldn't give a second thought to the rising and passing of yet another middle weight predator; no more than giving big cats sabers when the prey required it, and allowing them to pass into extinction when the need was gone.

Our prey was the vast stores of locked away carbon; we were given the tools to hunt it mercilessly; and now our prey is diminishing, and so to, soon our numbers.

No "revenge" or "malice". Purpose built; working as intended.. and soon, obsolete.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 10:06:01

I have posted this elsewhere, but I will again. It just stuck on me the 1st time I read it& fits in about here. http://dieoff.org/page137.htm
It speaks directly to AgentR's post
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby Hermes » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 10:48:18

I caution you against connecting human beings with civilization too closely.

Human beings made civilization, but civilization did not make human beings.

Humans existed for around 240,000 years BEFORE civilization did. These energy sources are the food for civilization, not the food for humanity. Once the energy is no longer being utilized, civilization dies. But it does not follow certainly that HUMANITY dies.

Don't get me wrong - an astounding number of humans are about to die, and it is certainly possible that humanity WILL be wiped out, but that's not due to the lack of energy. Rather I see the possibility of humanity dying out due to climate change rather than the lack of civilization or energy.

For a perspective on this may I suggest: http://anthropik.com/thirty/
Space Ghost: Oh boy, the Shatner's really hit the fan now. I'm up Dawson's Creek without a paddle.
User avatar
Hermes
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat 20 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Land of the Tonkawa/Karankawa

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 15:46:10

Planning FTF is the doing thread.

Post what you are doing.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby AgentR » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 16:09:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', 'H')umans existed for around 240,000 years BEFORE civilization did. These energy sources are the food for civilization, not the food for humanity.


I do not equate the two, nor did I even mention civilization.

Humans have been making fire for as long as there have been humans, as far as I can tell. We have been taking solidified, locked up carbon, and cutting it loose for nearly as long as we have existed.

All things start small.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby AgentR » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 17:48:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'P')lanning FTF is the doing thread.
Post what you are doing.


The OP seems more along the lines of believing a massive die off will happen, but hoping to "cheat doom" while maintaining the comforts of A/C and personal catering. I'm not sure how such a result is possible as most of our technology is dependent on massive numbers of people and quantities of resources being applied to deliver comfort to us in individual sized portions.

What should one expect humanity to look like after a true die off?

To me, the future seems more about one's children or grand children surviving an approaching bottleneck; rather than whether I myself live 5, 10, or 30 more years at comfort level 42.

In practice, I take the approach that any action I take or opt not to take, can create a future obstacle of indeterminant scope. It is my obligation to make my best effort to anticipate these possibilities, and avoid them. Examine those things that your current existence is reliant upon, and say, "ok, its gone. Are we fine, or are we toast." If you come up with "toast" more than rarely; it may be an indicator that whatever is reliant upon that particular resource, needs to go away.

In short, when your financial peers are living in 4000 sf houses, with two new cars and a speedboat, can you be content in a 1500 sf house, one old car/truck, and a canoe?

If you insist on buying something, can you choose that which lasts 80 years, instead of that which is shiny and lasts 8 months? If you insist on building Doomstead Fortress Omega, can you answer the question to yourself, "to what end do I do this?" Do you think the Fortress will stand against 80 years of banditry, or will it simply become Bandit Base Acquisition number 17.

Live modestly, don't buy stuff, don't create obligations that will hinder your children or their children. Harshly put.. they will not remember you kindly over a breakfast of 5 roaches and some algae cakes if your actions helped place them in such a state.

And remember, Gaea will not weep for thee.

nb... I rambled! ouch!
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 18:07:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'n')b... I rambled! ouch!

I don't have any doubt we are part of the organism, Gia if you prefer.

Those who "believe" different or who think they can cheat death by worrying more about others actions than their own I'm thinking are... mistaken...

Just my "belief".

:)
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 23:18:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Am I nuts? :(


Yep.

"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"


"I was only following orders." Nuremberg. (origin:unknown)
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby seldom_seen » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 00:45:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')e have spread ourselves around the planet, from pole to pole and mixed up the races nicely; aiding genetic diversity for our species.(

This is a gross misunderstanding of science. The "genetic diversity" you speak of is not real. By and large most ethnic groups breed within their own groups whether they are in in New Delhi, Helsinki or Cleveland.

More importantly though, the spread of people across the world via global-lie-zation has been a death blow to cultural diversity. That is where the damage has been done.

If everyone from Sri Lanka to Shanghai and Kalamazoo is eating at mcdonalds, listening to ipods, wearing nikes and driving a toyata. Then you have a monoculture. Nature abhors monocultures. That is why global-lie-zation is headed full steam to the boneyard.

We have now lost much more than we ever gained. From languages to customs and arts. Everything we did reduced the human spirit, belittled our intelligence and took ancient customs and flushed them down the toilet. No amount of ipods and high tech health care can replace the clear cutting and strip mining of cultural diversity.

We cut our strings to the past and we are now spinning in the wind.
But how the world turns. One day, cock of the walk. Next, a feather duster.
seldom_seen
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2229
Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 01:03:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')e have spread ourselves around the planet, from pole to pole and mixed up the races nicely; aiding genetic diversity for our species.(

This is a gross misunderstanding of science. The "genetic diversity" you speak of is not real. By and large most ethnic groups breed within their own groups whether they are in in New Delhi, Helsinki or Cleveland.

More importantly though, the spread of people across the world via global-lie-zation has been a death blow to cultural diversity. That is where the damage has been done.

If everyone from Sri Lanka to Shanghai and Kalamazoo is eating at mcdonalds, listening to ipods, wearing nikes and driving a toyata. Then you have a monoculture. Nature abhors monocultures. That is why global-lie-zation is headed full steam to the boneyard.

We have now lost much more than we ever gained. From languages to customs and arts. Everything we did reduced the human spirit, belittled our intelligence and took ancient customs and flushed them down the toilet. No amount of ipods and high tech health care can replace the clear cutting and strip mining of cultural diversity.

We cut our strings to the past and we are now spinning in the wind.



While I agree on the rest of what you say here I will dispute the 1st point.

A book was written 20 odd years ago called 'The Race of Tan'.
The premise was that as society becomes more and better educated racial prejudice naturally fades; this fading is followed by the law of attraction of opposites. ie. When the social norms AGAINST mixing the genes break down there will be more and more breeding between races. Eventually this will lead to the 'New Race of Tan'. No more 'pure races' everyone will be of mixed heritage.

It's a whole new ball game, crying over spilled culture will not change the fact.

Being stuck on the point of 'Defending the Race' just delays the inevitable mixing and promotes such horrors as race wars and ethnic cleansing.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby POAlex » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 08:00:12

"Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth." (Psalm 96:13)

Just something to think about...

Alex
User avatar
POAlex
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue 10 Jul 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Canada

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 08:07:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', '[')b]"Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth." (Psalm 96:13)

Just something to think about...

Alex



Is it possible for you to elaborate without quoting the Bible POAlex?

I am interested in how a Christian sees this actually going down?

All that stuff in the Revelation seems a bit too scary fairy story; besides we've probably all heard the Good News by now?
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:01:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') am interested in how a Christian sees this actually going down?

All that stuff in the Revelation seems a bit too scary fairy story; besides we've probably all heard the Good News by now?


Definitely Christian here; but i don't see any reason to believe this mess of our own making has anything at all to do with the End Times.

When an Angel of wrath comes to the world, and blows his trumpet; nothing crafted by the hand of man will even compare. Our wars are just that, ours. If and when God decides the game is over, there won't be any confusion over the issue.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:48:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')While I agree on the rest of what you say here I will dispute the 1st point.

A book was written 20 odd years ago called 'The Race of Tan'.
The premise was that as society becomes more and better educated racial prejudice naturally fades; this fading is followed by the law of attraction of opposites. ie. When the social norms AGAINST mixing the genes break down there will be more and more breeding between races. Eventually this will lead to the 'New Race of Tan'. No more 'pure races' everyone will be of mixed heritage.

It's a whole new ball game, crying over spilled culture will not change the fact.

Being stuck on the point of 'Defending the Race' just delays the inevitable mixing and promotes such horrors as race wars and ethnic cleansing.


The problem is rooted very deeply and come IMO from the inherent tribal social structure that Humanity evolved to have during the hunter-gatherer period, which is after all 99% of the time Humans have existed.

In yonder days the best exogamy strategy was to sneak over to the next tribe and kidnap yourself a wife, or if you were friendly meet up every year or so during the fall when food was plentiful and have a big party where people would trade unmarried women between tribal groups. When we invented agriculture and became settled it caused a major problem, we were not trading wives nearly so much as we had in the past. Exogamy is a very powerful instinct response, some studies tend to indicate that when a small town begins to become inbred due to lack of exogamy the males develop a case of wanderlust and start moving to other towns looking for work, and the same thing happens to their home town as males from other places move in looking for work. This keeps things evened out in long settled agricultural countries in places like Indo-China and Europe. In the USA the genetics are just now starting to rear up their effects because we have not been a settled agricultural society for dozens of generations. For one thing we have had many opertunities for immigrants from long settled regions to mingle, meet and marry that other places lacked. Germans marrying Italians or Irish marrying Spaniards was certainly common in the USA for a long time. Sure the first generation tended to stick to their own ethnic group because they were comfortable with it, but the second and beyond had no such strictures. Also anyone who thinks most African-Americans are pure Bantu is fooling themselves, for one thing several different ethnicities were bought and sold during our slave period up to 1865, and for another there was a lot of sex slavery practiced by slave owners over the years.

In reallity what most modern people call 'race' is akin to different breeds of cattle. TPTB took advantage of peoples fears about those who were different looking, but ultimately if we can all produce healthy offspring then we are all one Race, the Human Race that is.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: Gaia's Revenge? Or Constructed Disaster?

Unread postby POAlex » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 18:37:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') am interested in how a Christian sees this actually going down?

All that stuff in the Revelation seems a bit too scary fairy story; besides we've probably all heard the Good News by now?


Definitely Christian here; but i don't see any reason to believe this mess of our own making has anything at all to do with the End Times.

When an Angel of wrath comes to the world, and blows his trumpet; nothing crafted by the hand of man will even compare. Our wars are just that, ours. If and when God decides the game is over, there won't be any confusion over the issue.


Hi SeaGypsy, you're absolutely right, I should've posted more than that.

Sorry about that.

In short, throughout the Bible you see many situations where the Lord brought judgment on a people as a lesson. Sometimes it was fatal and final but other times it was to wake the people up. To warn them of an even greater danger lying ahead and to turn them back to Him where there is safety.

Remember God loves us but He hates sin. Its the root of the problem in this world and why Jesus came to die on a cross.

Alex
Have you heard?
User avatar
POAlex
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue 10 Jul 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron