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Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by rangerone314 » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 21:16:28
Would polyamory/polygamy be a suitable system in a post-peak oil world given the upheaval & necessity to band together?
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right
Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take
You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown
Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take
You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown
Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Narz » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 21:20:55
Yes, I'd like to sign up as one of your concubines, may I? 
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Ludi » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 21:40:16
Sounds great to me, for folks who can get along that way.
But why wait for post-peak? If you want to band together in that way, why not do it now?
But why wait for post-peak? If you want to band together in that way, why not do it now?
- Ludi
Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by SeaGypsy » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 22:09:05
Having lived on such communities I would make the following suggestions:
Whilst this works in a very tightly closed group with the only new arrivals being virgins; in an open society it is clearly physically dangerous.
It may be that say you've 100 people in the group, the average may have slept with ten people so there is a multiplying risk factor not present for remote aboriginal tribes.
I have seen what happens. It's a bit scary.
The alpha males take over.
The alpha females become their consorts in subjugating all the females for the primary alpha and his body guard henchmen. The 80% non alpha males end up masturbating or homosexual.
Also you can forget about knowing who's children are who's. (unless you have a DNA scientist on board.
Come on guys it's a nice fantasy but it doesn't really work for modern people. Unless you are an Alpha Male.
Whilst this works in a very tightly closed group with the only new arrivals being virgins; in an open society it is clearly physically dangerous.
It may be that say you've 100 people in the group, the average may have slept with ten people so there is a multiplying risk factor not present for remote aboriginal tribes.
I have seen what happens. It's a bit scary.
The alpha males take over.
The alpha females become their consorts in subjugating all the females for the primary alpha and his body guard henchmen. The 80% non alpha males end up masturbating or homosexual.
Also you can forget about knowing who's children are who's. (unless you have a DNA scientist on board.
Come on guys it's a nice fantasy but it doesn't really work for modern people. Unless you are an Alpha Male.
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by SeaGypsy » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 22:50:45
Australia's Spinifex Pitjatjanjarra people have a loose structure in their sexual norms.
They have a method of identifying patrilineage by the child's footprints.
It has proven to be close to 100% accurate.
They have a method of identifying patrilineage by the child's footprints.
It has proven to be close to 100% accurate.
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Aaron » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 07:28:57
Approves
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by smallpoxgirl » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 17:48:33
Maybe it's just me, but polyamory just seems like an enormous amount of work. It's hard enough finding one person you can share your life with and not want to murder them. How on earth do you go about finding several.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Pops » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 18:30:35
Welfare: more kids = more money.
Just like in the old days when more kids = more labor.
Just more talk on PO.com = less Do, me thinks.
Just like in the old days when more kids = more labor.
Just more talk on PO.com = less Do, me thinks.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by anador » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 21:35:39
Wasn't the cultural practice of monogamy developed for specific reasons?
In small population groups knowing who you are blood related to is important.
By introducing poly-amory into a small population, you run the risk of inbreeding after a couple generations, when it becomes just too difficult to remember who is related to who.
Large populations are easier because there is just much less of a chance you are related to any given person in a large city.
Villages though?... That is just too problematic.
In small population groups knowing who you are blood related to is important.
By introducing poly-amory into a small population, you run the risk of inbreeding after a couple generations, when it becomes just too difficult to remember who is related to who.
Large populations are easier because there is just much less of a chance you are related to any given person in a large city.
Villages though?... That is just too problematic.
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anador - Coal
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Ludi » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 21:41:17
Monogamy isn't especially the norm among Homo sapiens. Polygyny is more common, polyandry less so.
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by anador » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 21:48:01
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')onogamy isn't especially the norm among Homo sapiens. Polygyny is more common, polyandry less so.
I agree,Though many societies that openly used polygamy were historicly centered in large cities, or densely populated regions. ex: cities of the middle east, India...
In other societies polygamy was reserved for the upper class or for specific people and reasons. ex: Subsaharan Africa...
Again the same problems arise unless there's strong cultural ceremony involved or a large population to pull from.
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anador - Coal
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Ludi » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 21:56:28
Plenty of cultures practice/d polygamy. Many non-civilized cultures practice/d polygamy. They by definition don't have "classes."
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by anador » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 21:59:38
Non civilized cultures do have cultural classes. There is the cheif and his family, the warriors, the elders, the shaman... just because its not socioeconomic does not mean it was classless.
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anador - Coal
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Ludi » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 22:07:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'N')on civilized cultures do have cultural classes. There is the cheif and his family, the warriors, the elders, the shaman... just because its not socioeconomic does not mean it was classless.
They were not "classes." The chief is the head of a chiefdom, which is, yes, hierarchical. Other non-civiized peoples who lived in bands aka tribes, were not chiefdoms and did not have classes, they were non-hierarchical. "Shaman" is not a class. "Elders" is not a class.
- Ludi
Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by Ludi » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 22:15:50
I recommend Jason Godesky's essays "The Thirty Theses" at http://anthropik.com/ for discussion of non-hierarchical non-civilized cultures.
- Ludi
Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by anador » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 22:29:09
Maybe I'm just arguing semantics, but i think anyone treated in a specific way because of what they do, shaman, elders, etc. is in effect a class.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
Few tribes but the most primitive had no system of authority.
Even if it is just the strongest man in a group of ten. The strongest has authority over the rest.
We are a gregarious species and naturally form tribes with a central authority. The first tribes were not democracies.
Hierarchy has existed as long as people have interacted.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
Few tribes but the most primitive had no system of authority.
Even if it is just the strongest man in a group of ten. The strongest has authority over the rest.
We are a gregarious species and naturally form tribes with a central authority. The first tribes were not democracies.
Hierarchy has existed as long as people have interacted.
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anador - Coal
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by smallpoxgirl » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 22:33:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'M')aybe I'm just arguing semantics, but i think anyone treated in a specific way because of what they do, shaman, elders, etc. is in effect a class.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
I completely disagree with that. Class is something you acquire by birth. Anyone who is given special rights or authority without earning them is in a higher class.
Meritocracy is the basis of classless society.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Polyamory as a post-Peak communal way of living
by anador » Wed 04 Mar 2009, 22:40:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'M')aybe I'm just arguing semantics, but i think anyone treated in a specific way because of what they do, shaman, elders, etc. is in effect a class.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
Anyone that has more authority than someone else is in a higher class.
I completely disagree with that. Class is something you acquire by birth. Anyone who is given special rights or authority without earning them is in a higher class.
Meritocracy is the basis of classless society.
Then when i say class it probably is more accurate for me to say "level of social authority"
Hierarchy does exist regardless of whether it is class or not.
I have also realized that I have pulled this topic way off course...
Sorry.
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