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To My Peak Oil Friends

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 21:41:41

When you get lonely or whatever, just think of us, thinking of you. :) You're not alone; you're just not close-by.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby jdmartin » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 22:13:07

Heineken, sorry to hear about the money troubles. I know it's a bitch out there. Come on by when you've got a chance. I hope you get the girl :)
After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 22:15:53

Keep pluggin' Heine...

Btw the only thing that hot tap water is remotely 'necessary' for is a shower. It's really not that expensive to kick it on for 40 minutes or so every couple of days. And you can go even longer between if you can manage with 'cat-baths' for a few days. All those need is a basin, a washcloth and a boiling kettle...
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby gnm » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 22:22:41

Best of luck Heineken! What about a batch type solar water heater? I am converting to 100% solar water heat here - nearly done! But of course we have outrageous amounts of El Sol here....

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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby eastbay » Fri 27 Feb 2009, 23:48:31

jdmartin I really like your new bear btw. And hot water, near the top of the list of unbelievable luxuries we enjoy due to The Cheap Good Stuff, and however nice to have, is not really needed like many think it is.

When the sun is shining, lay out the garden hose filled with tap water and it will heat up nicely allowing for a groovy little warm one minute shower. :)

Done it. It's really refreshing!
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Heineken » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 10:01:03

Well, I've lived without hot water for four days now, and I don't miss it at all. I soak the dishes well and use extra soap and extra elbow grease (and Heine's handwalkin' arms have elbow grease to spare).

I can give myself a reasonable "bath" with a wash cloth. And as some have noted, on a warm day you can wash with sun-warmed water, or just take a bracing cold shower.

I'll kill almost all the power consumers over at the main house and reduce the electric bill there to a few bucks. There are four ceiling fans I'll keep running to circulate air to minimize the risk of mold.

With the water heater dead over here at the apartment, my total electric bill may actually go down. In the past my bill here at the apartment-over-a-garage has run $50/month. I think I can drop that to $30.

Also I'm using a clothes line exclusively to dry my clothes. No more cheating with the electric dryer.

To people thinking of turning off their water heaters, I suggest NOT draining them. Draining them introduces air which will rust them out faster. (Even a drained water heater will still have a little water in it, which interacts fast with any air present inside the tank.)

I think I'm going to drop the property insurance. To hell with it. I'M the property insurance.

Fundamentally, my annual living costs without Mom's fat checkbook will increase by $2500 (property tax). The assessment this year for the 25 acres and two dwellings ($429,200) was exactly the same as last year, despite a huge decline in real estate values. So, that amounts to a massive tax increase in a time of falling incomes.

If I can't find someone to join me here in a permanent love embrace, at some point I'll auction the place off. Maybe come away with $250K free and clear. Who knows, maybe I'll move to the Philippines and mate with a "lonely Pinoy" and live on a beach, doing headstands and handwalks. :) But I'm not abandoning my dear dog, so that would be five years down the line, roughly.

Not sure if I'll "get the girl." I'd like to, but she's heavily involved with her children, her church, and her career, and she lives a bit too far away. I have to be realistic about this.

Anyway, I don't have problems, I have opportunities.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 10:24:19

8) I'd keep one of those water heaters on quick standby incase you want to shower with a friend some hot summer night :) Taking care to avoid freezing waterpipes I'd reduce or shut off heat and power to any part of the two houses I wasn't using. You should be down to three rooms or less living by yourself. Do you have a minumum KWH usage they bill you for used or not. Here its 150kwh at a cheap lifeline rate that more then doubles after you exceed it.

Your property taxes will not go down with the market. As long as government spending stays where it is reappraising all the property down to the current market would just make them raise the rate per thousand of tax to raise the voted budget. Your only defense is to vote NO as often as possible and to reduce the amount of property you are paying tax on by renting it out or selling it.
Your mother will find that as the new kid on the block she will have a social life at the AL home and may like it a lot better than sitting around listening to you tap on a keyboard. Hope so anyway and good luck to you.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Heineken » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 10:55:20

Good comments, Vermont. Thanks.

Pipes freezing is less of an issue at our latitude, but it's certainly on my mind at all times. My larger concern is mold and mildew during our long humid summers. The ceiling fans will help, but I don't know how well a house holds up without AC.

You're probably right about the property taxes. That's a whole new crisis on boil. Last year the county treasurer had to give people an extra six months to pay them. Eventually the gap between what they're asking and what people can pay will get so wide something will have to give, somehow.

I tried to get this property sold and my parents into assisted living four years ago, when the place was worth a small fortune, but my dad said no. So now I have to live with his bad decision.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 11:23:46

Heineken, is there anything like agricultural appraisal status you could get for your land by running some livestock on it? We lowered our taxes to about 1/3 of their previous amount by getting some sheep. Even with buying fencing and hay we come out ahead each month compared to before we got the special status.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Byron100 » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 13:08:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'G')ood comments, Vermont. Thanks.

Pipes freezing is less of an issue at our latitude, but it's certainly on my mind at all times. My larger concern is mold and mildew during our long humid summers. The ceiling fans will help, but I don't know how well a house holds up without AC.

You're probably right about the property taxes. That's a whole new crisis on boil. Last year the county treasurer had to give people an extra six months to pay them. Eventually the gap between what they're asking and what people can pay will get so wide something will have to give, somehow.

I tried to get this property sold and my parents into assisted living four years ago, when the place was worth a small fortune, but my dad said no. So now I have to live with his bad decision.


Interestingly enough, the property taxes on my place (1800 sq feet, 3/4 acre in an urbanized area) is very close to $2500 a year, based on an assessed value of $221,000. Over $1500 of that goes towards the bloated school district, so I know there's a LOT of room to cut there.

I agree about the looming property tax crisis. When cities and towns start evicting people from paid-off homes for failure to pay property taxes, you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be some changes coming. Unlike the Federal government, in which change moves rather slowly and awkwardly, akin to turning a supertanker around 180 degrees, local government has the potential to change in the blink of an eye - that is, if the people get desperate enough to elect people who will do what the people want and need. We're just not quite there yet, but that day is coming, believe me. If that means putting kids on a 120-day school year, teaching only the bare basics up to age 16, so be it. I can imagine home-schooling is going to become very popular in coming years.

That being said, I bet you could get at least $250k for your property...if not a lot more. Houses are still selling for tax value around here, if not a bit more - they just take a lot longer to sell these days. There's always some residual demand for homes even in the worse of markets, and the relatively low number of homes available for sale certainly doesn't hurt either.

About the ceiling fans - I've noticed they use a lot more juice than you might think - especially if you run four of them 24/7. In the hotter months, I'd just get a couple box fans and put them in windows and blow the air in from the outside from dusk to early morning to lower the indoor temps a bit, and just having the windows open in the daytime should be enough to eliminate the risk of mold and mildew. Just be sure to have things like closet doors open, etc - anyplace where air might get "trapped."

Here's to hoping that you get the girl, however. ;) Just keep in mind that you'll have to turn the hot water heater back on if you want her to come and live with you...LOL.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Heineken » Sat 28 Feb 2009, 14:24:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'H')eineken, is there anything like agricultural appraisal status you could get for your land by running some livestock on it? We lowered our taxes to about 1/3 of their previous amount by getting some sheep. Even with buying fencing and hay we come out ahead each month compared to before we got the special status.


That's an interesting idea, Ludi, but I'm not sure it's a money saver when you count in all the costs of livestock. Definitely something I'll consider.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Lore » Sun 01 Mar 2009, 12:25:51

My hope is that you get through this period Heineken as whole as possible. It's not going to be easy for any of us I'm afraid in the coming months and years.

I know getting at this age personal loses just seem to mount up. Lost my mother a year ago this month along with both her sisters as well this past year and my wife's father just passed away on Friday.

I've pretty much stuck everything into my transition here to Michigan. The cabin is almost finished, should get the occupency permit in a couple of weeks. I Just got hit with a 10% increase in assesment in an area thats rapidly declining. Looks like everywhere local governments are trying to make up for the short fall with people they still think can pay to keep the party going. This too shall pass.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Heineken » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 10:37:39

Thanks for the update on what's going on with you, Lore.

Astonishing that your assessment actually went up, but since the cabin is new, what is the basis of comparison? I guess you're talking about the land, not the cabin. Sometimes they assess the land higher when something is built on it.

My mom came to me in tears over the weekend, begging me not to "put her" into assisted living. She's a real wreck, basically facing the end.

I had to relent, reassure her, hug her, and tell her she can stay here with me, even though this is a dreadful prospect for me and possibly even for her.

She's willfully forfeiting the nonrefundable $3000 "admission fee" she paid to the assisted-living place!!!

So, she's staying here after all, as the endless saga continues. At least she will help pay for things, in a big way. But nothing is free given the psychodrama I must endure at her CRAZY hands.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 10:44:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y mom came to me in tears over the weekend, begging me not to "put her" into assisted living. She's a real wreck, basically facing the end.

I had to relent, reassure her, hug her, and tell her she can stay here with me, even though this is a dreadful prospect for me and possibly even for her.

She's willfully forfeiting the nonrefundable $3000 "admission fee" she paid to the assisted-living place!!!

So, she's staying here after all, as the endless saga continues. At least she will help pay for things, in a big way. But nothing is free given the psychodrama I must endure at her CRAZY hands.


I put on a lot of miles to Mom's place (12 mile round trip). She lives in a 55+ condo now, thay all are shuffling around with walkers. The greatest generation is about toast. At age 90 she really needs assisted-living. I hope she dies in her sleep.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 11:08:37

In Asia everyone has an oldie in the house.

It's no big deal when everyone does it.

The oldies are properly adjusted to it though; they are much better at relinquishing power when the time comes.

I love the extended family thing here; it can be testy but it does work if all participants know their role.

The tendency of parents in the west is to keep trying to parent adult children.
In Asia the last say is from the breadwinner of the house. That's it ; final.
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Byron100 » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 12:18:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')hanks for the update on what's going on with you, Lore.

Astonishing that your assessment actually went up, but since the cabin is new, what is the basis of comparison? I guess you're talking about the land, not the cabin. Sometimes they assess the land higher when something is built on it.

My mom came to me in tears over the weekend, begging me not to "put her" into assisted living. She's a real wreck, basically facing the end.

I had to relent, reassure her, hug her, and tell her she can stay here with me, even though this is a dreadful prospect for me and possibly even for her.

She's willfully forfeiting the nonrefundable $3000 "admission fee" she paid to the assisted-living place!!!

So, she's staying here after all, as the endless saga continues. At least she will help pay for things, in a big way. But nothing is free given the psychodrama I must endure at her CRAZY hands.


Sorry to hear about that, Heiny. I guess she got cold feet when it finally sunk in, huh? That burns me up about the $3000 "fee", though...perhaps a call to a local attorney might be in order? (Can't hurt, why not?)

I keep thinking about the post 2020-era, when such things as assisted living homes, nursing homes and even most hospitals will be nothing more than empty shells, with just rats, possums and raccoons taking up residence in them, as opposed to millions of our elderly. What will become of all those people then?

Just mind-blowing to even think of such a thing, made even more dramatic when you think about how all of this is drawing ever so closer...
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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 12:27:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')n Asia everyone has an oldie in the house.

It's no big deal when everyone does it.

The oldies are properly adjusted to it though; they are much better at relinquishing power when the time comes.

I love the extended family thing here; it can be testy but it does work if all participants know their role.

The tendency of parents in the west is to keep trying to parent adult children.
In Asia the last say is from the breadwinner of the house. That's it ; final.


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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby TWilliam » Tue 03 Mar 2009, 13:01:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'W')hat will become of all those people then?

Soylent Green?

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Re: To My Peak Oil Friends

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 08:10:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')If I can't find someone to join me here in a permanent love embrace, at some point I'll auction the place off. Maybe come away with $250K free and clear. Who knows, maybe I'll move to the Philippines and mate with a "lonely Pinoy" and live on a beach, doing headstands and handwalks. :) But I'm not abandoning my dear dog..


I would love your parents to hear that. I, of course, will fully take your word that your dog is absolutely fabulous , and that your parents deserved to rot in their own sh1t and be marinated in thier own piss for as long as the protons are stable.
But, you are selling their place to fund your joyfull retirement while they are still alive. What makes you think they wouldnt like to live in a luxury beachfront house on Phili themselves, with their own staff of maids, cooks, nurses, masseuses, dicksuckers, ets? What would you say if your nephew would show up, lock you in your father's nursing home , sell the house and went to Phili himself ,huh? You don't think you are that close to the nursing home do you? I'm sure it would suck more if you had to wipe the sh1t out of his homo ass before.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') had to relent, reassure her, hug her, and tell her she can stay here with me


perhaps next time you should ask if YOU can stay there with her.
Last edited by Pretorian on Sun 08 Mar 2009, 12:44:21, edited 2 times in total.
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