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States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 12:48:35

It's too bad that the US's mess had to plunge so deep into the abyss before the states finally woke up. Even with this state legislation being so late into the 11th hour of the US's spiraling bankruptcy, it is still an extremely welcome development.

Once the US goes broke, the states will take over in any case.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 13:26:09

Are you all writing your reps to ask them to uphold state sovereignty?
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 13:48:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')re you all writing your reps to ask them to uphold state sovereignty?


Me? Of course. I don't just scream at you guys all day, the bureaucrats get their fair share.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Arsenal » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 14:42:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')re you all writing your reps to ask them to uphold state sovereignty?


Multiple times. The problem with NY and MA is it is like screaming at a freight train. I will keep trying since at some point enough of us will be louder than the train.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Kristen » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 18:28:25

Hopefully Minnesota will jump on the bandwagon.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 18:50:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')o a large extent the states wouldn't even exist without the federal government, which sponsored wars and negotiations to secure that land for the states.

States also might find it a burden to negotiate with foreign governments for trade deals and negotiate with states with ports to export and import with foreign countries.


I think you are painting things a bit too black and white.
You see the arrangement with the states and federal government needs to be a deal that both wins something from. You cannot argue that just because one party, in your examples the federal government, has done something beneficial, that the other party thereafter needs to accept anything from that party. It is clear that the relation between state adn fed has become increasingly lopsided and when fundamental rules, such as constitution, is broken, then it is reasonable for the states to give early warning that arrangment may be terminated if the federal government continues the set course.
I don't even understand why you fail to see this.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 19:16:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '
')
I think you are painting things a bit too black and white.....

I don't even understand why you fail to see this.



I don't even understand why you think I'm not seeing it a particular way.

:|

I think you are painting me a bit too black and white.

:|
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 19:54:28

[smilie=5bullwhip.gif] OK OK I'm backing off. [smilie=toothy11.gif]
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 19 Feb 2009, 02:58:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ')perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."


Then perhaps the states should charge the Federal Goobermint Rent on the land on which the roads are built for which they charge a toll upon which to drive? Anyhow, last time the Highways came up, the Highway Trust Fund was about broke so I wouldn't count on the Federal Goobermint doing much maintenance, at least once the Funny Money scheme runs out of Gas (pun intended).

In the event of secession, the Federal Goobermint ceases to exist, and so does the United States as a Nation-State. Of course some may vote to stay in and then go to war on those who secede to force them into the Union, we have been down that road before of course.

In the case of the original Civil War, you had the well-financed North versus the poorly financed South. Basically the Banksters used that war to gain control over the south and moved the labor up to their factories in the north under their form of Slavery, economic slavery.

Which is the well-financed side in the coming Civil War in the USA? What Banksters are left with any money to fund the next National Socialist Party in Germany?

The Ponzi scheme that started in 1694 has run its course, there IS no Deep Pocket to fund a war on any side for very long. That's not to say there won't be some serious fighting here both intra-country and inter-country, but in terms of building and maintaining a large mechanized army run on Oil to wage a world war with? Not enough easy to get at Oil for that to happen again.

However, within countries the battle for control will come between those who wish to rule themselves locally and those who wish to maintain their power by keeping a large population and large area under one rule and a single taxation base. Unless the Federal Goobermint actually DOES something for the country as a whole though, there is little reason anyone will support its continued existence. Its only pupose would be to run a single large military force to try to project power elsewhere in the world, but we are about out of resources to do that now anyhow. All we really need military forces now is for the purpose of defending our own locales and trying to maintain some order in this mess. States can do a better job allocating their own populations to those tasks as necessary, for a lot less money than is spent by the Pentagon.

The Soviet Union broke up into its constituent states once it could no longer afford the apparatus to keep such a large state together. Our Union is older and more entrenched, but its fundamentally the same problem and unless something spectacularly odd happens, over time this conglomeration will disintegrate also. How long it will take is anyone's guess though. I'll wager it takes about a decade to fall apart. Ludi can add that one to the Bold Predictions thread. LOL.

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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby Cloud9 » Thu 19 Feb 2009, 07:47:59

R.E. we have already been down that road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_v._Maryland
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 19 Feb 2009, 09:40:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'R').E. we have already been down that road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_v._Maryland


Yes, we have, and as mentioned it led to the Civil War. Remake coming soon to a Theatre Near You.

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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 19 Feb 2009, 10:10:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ')perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."


Then perhaps the states should charge the Federal Goobermint Rent on the land on which the roads are built for which they charge a toll upon which to drive? Anyhow, last time the Highways came up, the Highway Trust Fund was about broke so I wouldn't count on the Federal Goobermint doing much maintenance, at least once the Funny Money scheme runs out of Gas (pun intended).

In the event of secession, the Federal Goobermint ceases to exist, and so does the United States as a Nation-State. Of course some may vote to stay in and then go to war on those who secede to force them into the Union, we have been down that road before of course.

In the case of the original Civil War, you had the well-financed North versus the poorly financed South. Basically the Banksters used that war to gain control over the south and moved the labor up to their factories in the north under their form of Slavery, economic slavery.

Which is the well-financed side in the coming Civil War in the USA? What Banksters are left with any money to fund the next National Socialist Party in Germany?

The Ponzi scheme that started in 1694 has run its course, there IS no Deep Pocket to fund a war on any side for very long. That's not to say there won't be some serious fighting here both intra-country and inter-country, but in terms of building and maintaining a large mechanized army run on Oil to wage a world war with? Not enough easy to get at Oil for that to happen again.

However, within countries the battle for control will come between those who wish to rule themselves locally and those who wish to maintain their power by keeping a large population and large area under one rule and a single taxation base. Unless the Federal Goobermint actually DOES something for the country as a whole though, there is little reason anyone will support its continued existence. Its only pupose would be to run a single large military force to try to project power elsewhere in the world, but we are about out of resources to do that now anyhow. All we really need military forces now is for the purpose of defending our own locales and trying to maintain some order in this mess. States can do a better job allocating their own populations to those tasks as necessary, for a lot less money than is spent by the Pentagon.

The Soviet Union broke up into its constituent states once it could no longer afford the apparatus to keep such a large state together. Our Union is older and more entrenched, but its fundamentally the same problem and unless something spectacularly odd happens, over time this conglomeration will disintegrate also. How long it will take is anyone's guess though. I'll wager it takes about a decade to fall apart. Ludi can add that one to the Bold Predictions thread. LOL.

Reverse Engineer


In general, a pretty good breakdown of things...

I do disagree a little with the timing... I don't think that it will take about a decade to fall apart... I'm guessing more like two decades. Of course I could be wrong if this current economic situation spirals out of control.

I figure by two decades the dollar/national debut/current accounts deficit issues will have come to a head, as well as oil/food production declines.
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