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States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

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States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 00:50:50

Just to catch you up in case you haven't kept up with alternative news in the past month (this sort of thing is not covered in the corporate-owned mainstream news). At least 10 states in the USA have passed bills or resolutions that reserve the right under the 10th amendment of the constitution to declare sovereignty from the federal government in case the Feds were to declare martial law or pass laws which restrict gun ownership more than exist already. Some of the bills make it illegal for anyone to enforce more restrictive laws about gun confiscation, so anyone who tries to do so will be breaking the law and theoretically placed under arrest by state law enforcement personnel.

Last week, state legislators from OK, NH, MO and WA were interviewed and I've compiled the YouTube versions here. I think it's especially illuminating to hear how they all talk about our federal government as "lost" to banks and corporations and that our only hope to influence our environment is through state government.

NH reps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH6z1n1q5h0 (starts around the 9:20 mark, everything before that is background info)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD6ggcmDBkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XKuUTk_znA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbu0bcbiO90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_BhtU6ehw

OK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORcHJS0FLSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5_wYVk7Yj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOmZUGQe42I

WA (starts around 5:20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05s3ua8EFM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0baVBIZS94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrAf_9zJ8wk

Missouri:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnQ4J9TUlbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Xv4PHZdpU
Last edited by Jotapay on Wed 18 Feb 2009, 10:52:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby blukatzen » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 01:34:53

There was a Coast to CoastAM special roundtable with Alex Jones, George Noury(hosting), Jerome Corsi (not talking about PeakOil issues!), and several State Senators from various States on last night. I expect them to probably be up soon on Youtube, as I have seen other shows there, for those who don't listen later on via Streamlink.
It was a GREAT show last night!

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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby ReverseEngineer » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 02:52:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'J')ust to catch you up in case you haven't kept up with alternative news in the past month (this sort of thing is not covered in the corporate-owned mainstream news). At least 10 states in the USA have passed bills or resolutions that reserve the right under the 10th amendment of the constitution to declare sovereignty from the federal government in case the Feds were to declare martial law or pass laws which restrict gun ownership more than exist already. Some of the bills make it illegal for anyone to enforce more restrictive laws about gun confiscation, so anyone who tries to do so will be breaking the law and theoretically placed under arrest by state law enforcement personnel.


This in combination with the fact that it seem ever more likely that the Federal Goobermint will not be able to help the states once the funny money they are printing becomes worthless leads me to believe the secession of states and reformation of regional groups might occur sooner rather than later in the spin down scenario.

It will be interesting to see when/if we get a conflict between National Guard troops ordered by a State Governor to Shoot on Army Units ordered by the President to Shoot on the Guard. Will these boys and girls shoot each other, or will they turn fire on those that order them to do so? How will the people line up in a Civil War?

From Slash, Mckagan and Axel Rose:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men." *


Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before


Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before


My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars


D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "Peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land


And
I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war


Look at the shoes your filling
Look at the blood we're spilling
Look at the world we're killing
The way we've always done before
Look in the doubt we've wallowed
Look at the leaders we've followed
Look at the lies we've swallowed
And I don't want to hear no more


My hands are tied
For all I've seen has changed my mind
But still the wars go on as the years go by
With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars


"We practice selective annihilation of mayors
And government officials
For example to create a vacuum
Then we fill that vacuum
As popular war advances
Peace is closer" **


I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
And I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
I don't need one more war

I don't need one more war
Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway


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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Micki » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 06:00:20

[smilie=adora.gif] Dan Itse is a frickin HERO.
Listening to that interview on Alex Jones is the best...the BEST
I am like a kid at Christmas.
OK, I got to get to the rest of the clips now... [smilie=eusa_dance.gif]
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Micki » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 08:26:19

More traction.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ontana lawmakers fired another shot in battles for states' rights as they supported letting some Montana gun owners and dealers skip reporting their transactions to the federal government.
Under House Bill 246, firearms made in Montana and used in Montana would be exempt from federal regulation. The same would be true for firearm accessories and ammunition made and sold in the state.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20090214/NEWS01/90214004
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Arsenal » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 10:23:19

Awesome!! About time some of the states got some balls.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby vision-master » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 10:38:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'M')ore traction.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ontana lawmakers fired another shot in battles for states' rights as they supported letting some Montana gun owners and dealers skip reporting their transactions to the federal government.
Under House Bill 246, firearms made in Montana and used in Montana would be exempt from federal regulation. The same would be true for firearm accessories and ammunition made and sold in the state.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20090214/NEWS01/90214004


I think Montana told the Feds to shove it with Real ID too?
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 10:41:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I') think Montana told the Feds to shove it with Real ID too?


Yep, they did.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 10:57:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'A')wesome!! About time some of the states got some balls.



They should reject all Federal money and maybe not be allowed to use the interstate highway, which is maintained by federal funds, as I understand. Or perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."

Just to be consistent.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby rangerone314 » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:05:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'A')wesome!! About time some of the states got some balls.



They should reject all Federal money and maybe not be allowed to use the interstate highway, which is maintained by federal funds, as I understand. Or perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."

Just to be consistent.


I hate that whole system to begin with. Where the Federal government taxes citizens from a state and then blackmails the state into giving up sovereignty in exchange for getting back some of the money that the Federal government took in the first place from the people of that state.

Its the same as when the Gov acts like they are doing you a favor giving a tax break or a rebate when it was the taxpayer's money to begin with!
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:10:08

To a large extent the states wouldn't even exist without the federal government, which sponsored wars and negotiations to secure that land for the states.

States also might find it a burden to negotiate with foreign governments for trade deals and negotiate with states with ports to export and import with foreign countries.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:17:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'A')wesome!! About time some of the states got some balls.



They should reject all Federal money and maybe not be allowed to use the interstate highway, which is maintained by federal funds, as I understand. Or perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."

Just to be consistent.


Seeing as how states give $1 to the federal government and only get back about $0.35 back, I'd be fine with that arrangement. Just fine, in fact.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:19:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')o a large extent the states wouldn't even exist without the federal government, which sponsored wars and negotiations to secure that land for the states.

States also might find it a burden to negotiate with foreign governments for trade deals and negotiate with states with ports to export and import with foreign countries.


I have a sneaking suspicion that I would be much better off if I paid all my taxes to the state of Texas, rather than the federal government. The fed uses my tax money for policies that infringe upon my Liberty. They use my own money against me!
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:21:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')Seeing as how states give $1 to the federal government and only get back about $0.35 back, I'd be fine with that arrangement. Just fine, in fact.



Some states get back more than they pay:

"States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)"


http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... _feed.html

Those are somewhat old numbers. As some states are now going bankrupt, the list has probably changed.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Ludi » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:22:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')I have a sneaking suspicion that I would be much better off if I paid all my taxes to the state of Texas, rather than the federal government. The fed uses my tax money for policies that infringe upon my Liberty. They use my own money against me!



Texas is unusually well set up to be a sovereign state, though Texas state government is notoriously corrupt and ineffective.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:27:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')exas is unusually well set up to be a sovereign state, though Texas state government is notoriously corrupt and ineffective.


There is a huge "good ol' boy" system here. However, it's much better than Illinois and Massachusetts, I would think. Texans has old traditions. If you know how to navigate within those old traditions, you can do fine here and everything works out usually.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby dinopello » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 11:27:38

Localities have atrophied in their ability to build concensus, address grievances and generally govern at the local level. Most localities have turned their transportation systems over to the state which in turn has become dependent on the Federal government. I'm all for more local control and self sufficiency but these communities will have to get their act in order. Or not, and go Mad Max.
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 12:09:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'S')eeing as how states give $1 to the federal government and only get back about $0.35 back, I'd be fine with that arrangement. Just fine, in fact.


http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... _feed.html

Those are somewhat old numbers. As some states are now going bankrupt, the list has probably changed.


After looking into this a little more, it doesn't seem to be as cut and dry as the comment I regurgitated which I had earlier heard.

The 2009 federal budget is about $3.1 trillion. It looks like we will have to borrow more than $1 trillion this year. Military-related spending is around $1 trillion in 2009. I don't see most military spending as being useful domestically and improving the standard of living in states for their citizens. This money should be spent on research and development, education and infrastructure. In 2003, we were paying 16% of tax revenue to service interest payments on the national debt. I can't find any more recent figures for debt interest service than that. If not for massive borrowing, the states and citizens would be receiving much less money back from the federal government than we currently do, mainly due to military spending and national debt interest payments.

It is shocking to see that in 2003 we paid 17% of our tax receipts to service the national debt payments. Does anyone know what percentage it is now?
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby Arsenal » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 12:20:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'A')wesome!! About time some of the states got some balls.



They should reject all Federal money and maybe not be allowed to use the interstate highway, which is maintained by federal funds, as I understand. Or perhaps the interstate should be set up as a toll road (money to go to the federal government) as it passes through the "free states."

Just to be consistent.


Not really consistent... All these states are doing is telling the federal gov to keep their nose in their own business. They have not rejected anything yet but will if they feel it compromises state rights where the feds really have no rights. This is what happens with the judicial branch of the government sits back and lets the legislative and executive have free reign. The stink is so putrid in DC that the state governments are starting to assert themselves as per the constitution.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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Re: States pass bills to declare sovereignty from USA

Postby rangerone314 » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 12:47:51

I agree, it is high time the states got some balls...

May be all that is left of organized gov once the US gov crumbles financially in a decade or two... the only question is will states issue their own currency?
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

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