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Welcome To The Depression!

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby shortonsense » Thu 12 Feb 2009, 20:34:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'O')ne would think the least tht should happen in payback terms is exactly that. Every 2 faced slimebag involved in peddling sub prime mortgages to people obviously unable to repay; in my opinion at least, should be asset stripped pronto& permanently.
They callously manipulated and left millions struggling in their wake;


What was the responsibility of the people who were advised to read the paperwork before signing it, did so, and took the terms of the slimebag anyway?

While blaming slimebags in the tradition of "aim your ire at those you like least" is quite reasonable, there is an element of personal responsibility here which means that while "slimebag" might describe the the seller of the mortgage, the term which applies to the purchaser might be "stupid as a stump" ?
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 12 Feb 2009, 21:04:03

Having lived in impoverished Asia and Aboriginal Australia; I can promise that 80% plus of people here will sign anything put in front of them with a good sales pitch.

I know a guy here who recently split with his wife. Told her there are a heap of papers she needed to sign to arrange the separation.
Among this pile he placed a release of custody form for their child.

She didn't even look; signed the lot, now he has custody.

It's pretty easy for the savvy to say these people are stupid; but is the fact they trusted those they saw as their 'betters' really justification for equal blame?
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby shortonsense » Thu 12 Feb 2009, 23:25:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')aving lived in impoverished Asia and Aboriginal Australia; I can promise that 80% plus of people here will sign anything put in front of them with a good sales pitch.


That strikes me as a completely amazing statement. I have met no person in my lifetime who I believe would be this totally stupid just because of a sales pitch.

Matter of fact, this statement almost begs the corollary, if a sales pitch is so effective as to stop all neurons from functioning in the human brain, why aren't 80% of ALL people subjected to modern advertising and marketing out buying EVERYTHING they are pitched?

Why don't I drive a Caddy? Why doesn't my wife have one of those Apple super thin laptop computers? Why did I buy $3000 braces for the kids teeth instead of the $5000 ones recommended by the better dentist salesperson? Why aren't my countertops granite? Why is my mower a decade old, I've only seen TONS of sales pitches for those?

Nope...sorry....I can not believe that humans turn off their brains when presented with a decent sales pitch, even less so when it involves the purchase of the single largest purchase that most people make.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')I know a guy here who recently split with his wife. Told her there are a heap of papers she needed to sign to arrange the separation.
Among this pile he placed a release of custody form for their child.

She didn't even look; signed the lot, now he has custody.


It sounds like she learn exactly the lesson expected from this episode. To bad it was with something even more important than a house.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')
It's pretty easy for the savvy to say these people are stupid; but is the fact they trusted those they saw as their 'betters' really justification for equal blame?


Trust is not, and has never been, a substitute for reading any binding contract you are about to put your name on. Want to bet that in the example you provided about the lady who lost custody of her children won't be making that mistake again any time soon? :roll:
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 08:09:56

Shortonsense.

I will bet 1 million USD (to be paid at the end of 2012) You live and have alway lived in a priveleged area?

When one is one of the 97% of the world who live below the OECD poverty line; and some farker comes and tells you how to be rich/ Oh my God you want to believe!
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 08:54:33

Short answer is two parted -

a) we really do buy a lot of the shit on TV, even if your mower is ten years old.

b) understanding the importance of contracts is something that is a key part of US culture. Most of us learn it (or have it reinforced) by being bitten one or two times.

Australian aborigines are dealing with a different cultural background. Think about the appalachian hill ppl giving up their land to coal companies willy nilly. Those folks had no concept what was going on.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 08:56:49

and descendents of slaves?
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 09:28:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'R')ecession or depression is one of those in retrospect things since it's a label put on a recession, not a strictly defined term. During the great depression, over three years real GDP supposedly dropped nearly 30%. If we see something like that, I think it is safe to call this recession GD part two, but we're going to have to pull way ahead of the ~.5% drop we've seen since the recession started last December and average a ~15%/year drop in U.S. GDP over the next two years.


these statistics may not be initially available from the US gov.

the GDP is a dollar aggregate. it includes car crashes and all the economic activity after car crashes. it also includes some financial products.

what is aggregate domestic product based on a count of the quantity of goods produced, as opposed to the cost those goods were sold for ?

how is a $200 doctor appointment better than a $35 doctor appointment ?

if the GDP could re-stated in terms of "procedure volume", to use a medical term, that would help us to see where we are.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby JJ » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 10:42:57

my filipina wife must be part of the 20%; she said what kind of fool would sign a contract without reading it? (of course she married me; we got married in the Philippines, with 20 sponsors signing our marriage contract :) Sea gypsy, we had the short version of wedding, lasting only two hours.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 10:49:16

So JJ a fellowman in more than PO?

My wife is very savvy too.(Filipina)

18 sponsors 1 hour@ church 2 hour reception.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby timmatoil » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 11:49:21

Ed Balls is considered the cleverest member of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s government, so his warning of a new Great Depression has spooked politicians around the globe. (http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... years.html). Balls claimed that events were moving at a “speed, pace and ferocity which none of us have seen before” and that banks were losing cash on a “scale that nobody believed possible.” Even worse: Balls believes the new Depression will last even longer than the old one.

Via Stock Research Portal Blog (http://www.stockresearchportalblog.com/ ... al-economy)

How do you feel about these comments made?
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 12:36:43

Wow! A hint of realism from a senior G7 Government!
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby JJ » Fri 13 Feb 2009, 12:50:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')o JJ a fellowman in more than PO?

My wife is very savvy too.(Filipina)

18 sponsors 1 hour@ church 2 hour reception.


checked out your website, very nice. Can't live there now though (bought land in Mindanao)
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby eXpat » Sat 21 Feb 2009, 14:56:40

Soros sees no bottom for world financial "collapse"
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')EW YORK (Reuters) - Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis.

Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression, comparing the current situation to the demise of the Soviet Union.

He said the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September marked a turning point in the functioning of the market system.

"We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom."

His comments echoed those made earlier at the same conference by Paul Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman who is now a top adviser to President Barack Obama.

Volcker said industrial production around the world was declining even more rapidly than in the United States, which is itself under severe strain.

"I don't remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world," Volcker said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51K0A920090221
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby shortonsense » Sun 22 Feb 2009, 19:54:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')hortonsense.

I will bet 1 million USD (to be paid at the end of 2012) You live and have alway lived in a priveleged area?

When one is one of the 97% of the world who live below the OECD poverty line; and some farker comes and tells you how to be rich/ Oh my God you want to believe!


I suppose "privileged area" is relative. I grew up in rural America.

I don't see any relevance related to my comments.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:20:24

Timmatoil the Boomers the "X" the "Y" and there kids will never forget the lessons that we are all going to learn the hard way.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby Blacksmith » Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:52:02

I read everything, since this was once part of my job. You would be surprised what lawyers put into contracts.

Last year I rented a car and sat in their office and read the whole contract before I took the car out. Of coarse I got probably the smallest, oldest piece of junk they had on the lot, what surprised me other than what was in the contract was that I was the only one who read the contract.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby alokin » Sun 22 Feb 2009, 21:07:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')oros sees no bottom for world financial "collapse"

Is this guy part of the collapse? I really begin to think this is at least partly engineered.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby TreebeardsUncle » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 03:07:03

So, if Sorros is in on some plan to engineer this collapse, whom is it supposed to benefit? The banks and house builders do not appear to be doing very well. Those with a lot of cash are doing well by comparison.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby lowem » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 11:31:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'S')o, if Sorros is in on some plan to engineer this collapse, whom is it supposed to benefit? The banks and house builders do not appear to be doing very well. Those with a lot of cash are doing well by comparison.


Maybe he *is* holding on to a lot of cash?
He was the one who used to short the British pound remember.
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Re: Welcome To The Depression!

Unread postby alokin » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 21:15:41

OK this was really tinfoil, but it may be possible that very rich people / institutions and or governments with or without money trying to influence the market.
If this makes sense on the long run, I don't know.
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