[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')ep, well, that's unfortunate. I guess they actually don't care to learn much about it.

I'm completely wasting my time here, apparently.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')Learn? You're going to teach us how to feed 7 billion people with permaculture?

[PenultimateManStanding]

Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five year mission, to seek out strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before!

Singularity, shmingularity, what a joke. These people are living in a dream world, a consensus trance. What utterly baffles me is how such brainiacs can be so blind. The whole show depends on the accumulated remains of Carboniferous Period lifeforms dating from 354 to 290 million years ago. Why? Because it burns.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'S')pace, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five year mission, to seek out strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before!

Singularity, shmingularity, what a joke. These people are living in a dream world, a consensus trance. What utterly baffles me is how such brainiacs can be so blind. The whole show depends on the accumulated remains of Carboniferous Period lifeforms dating from 354 to 290 million years ago. Why? Because it burns.

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou guys seem appalled at anyone who suggests humans may be able to survive as more than apocalyptic scavengers once oil runs out.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')As for global warming, chances are technofixes are our only solution. We can't just stop polluting entirely & even if we could that wouldn't be enough.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '
')Many of them want it to end because they need it to end.

[Ludi]

A "technofix" is just more of the same - perpetuating the problem. Our first action should be to STOP the damaging behavior. Then repair in the least damaging way.

[Carlhole]

Human Beings developed big brains because they bestow a tremendous problem-solving advantage. This is what technology is. Railing against technology amounts to a rejection of essential humanity - which is absurd because only a human could ever make such a judgment and he/she would do so only in attempting to solve a problem!

The whole multi-million-year evolutionary story of hominids has been about the adoption of ever more sophisticated technologies and the accretion of greater degrees of biological IQ. This ancient trend shows an exponential pattern of increase - so slow as to be unnoticeable at first but irresistibly approaching the near-vertical. We are probably sitting right on the elbow of the great curve right now.

Big brains aren't going to go away. They are only going to get "bigger" - very rapidly over the next few decades in all likelihood. This is because achieving greater intelligence is the most valuable thing in the universe. It is the great project of human beings. Without intelligence, there would be no such thing as "value" to begin with. With intelligence, the idea and utilility of "value" expands commensurately.

Getting people to voluntarily limit intelligence (when it can potentially be grasped) is as misguided as trying to get people to act altruistically all the time. And right now, greater intelligence CAN be grasped.

When the likes of NASA and Google are interested in the idea of the Singularity, it's becoming more an accepted, realistic mainstream expectation. The advent of machine consciousness -- with machines designing the next-generation of machines, which, in-turn design the next generation, etc., etc. -- means that a whole new level of Life On Earth will be coming into existence. This "birthing" process probably won't happen in an instant -- it will probably occur over a span of 5 - 10 decades. Still, most of us alive now will probably have a normal conversation with a computer one day not too long from now.

Whenever Singularitarians have been presented with the idea of a human die-off, they shrug. Such a thing would have absolutely no effect upon the general exponential trend towards The Singularity. they say. It will just mean the end of the multi-billion human-dominated, mass consumer society. "So what?"

[align=center][flash width=425 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/v/ZlgHxa9Lsio[/flash][/align]

Singularity University Presentation

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A') "technofix" is just more of the same - perpetuating the problem.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')henever Singularitarians have been presented with the idea of a human die-off, they shrug. Such a thing would have absolutely no effect upon the general exponential trend towards The Singularity. they say. It will just mean the end of the multi-billion human-dominated, mass consumer society. "So what?"

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') swear we would not having these sorts of discussions with oil still trading near $150 bbl. We've now reset the clock back to the pregame show. When we fall off the plateau, everybody will reevaluate their predictions. Don't just go from shock to trance.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', 'S')o what's wrong with MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)?

[rsch20]

I will say that I remember having this conversation with ludi a few years back and it went exactly the same, blathering about permaculture without even realizing that that itself is a new 'technology'. It was very frustrating and it's nice to see that the consensus opinion is shifting finally.

It makes no sense to me how people can accept Peak Oil and deny Accelerating Tech. both theories are based on the same methodology (observing trends over time), and both are backed by pretty substantial evidence.

Even if we DON'T hit the Singularity, it's still a fascinating situation, in the near future we will either have an explosion of technology that will transform the world in ways we can't even imagine, or we will level off, and if tech does level off then put me solidly in the doomer camp, our problems are far beyond our capability to handle or cure with our current level of intelligence.

[rsch20]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou can't brush doom aside so easily.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', 'I') will say that I remember having this conversation with ludi a few years back and it went exactly the same, blathering about permaculture without even realizing that that itself is a new 'technology'.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', 'S')o what's wrong with MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)?

[rsch20]

That's not the point, the idea of permaculture is for everyone to do it, which hasn't been done before. implementing it would be new, a change in our culture, and although the individual pieces have been around a long time, the 'wrapping' of permaculture and the idea that this is something with global consequences IS new.

permaculture is a puzzle piece, not the entire solution. I endorse it, I think toilets are a massive waste of resources and a glaring symptom of the deeper issues with our current intelligence level. we could be composting our waste instead of flushing it away with DRINKING QUALITY WATER.

permaculture is great, but without a higher 'base' intelligence level as a species it's a non-starter, impossible to implement because we are just too dumb, disorganized, shortsighted, and poorly managed for our entire species to do something that smart. Without a benevolent AI or something similar I think permaculture is firmly in the 'yea that'd be a good idea' category.


(p.s. I just noticed that you stated it's not new tech, and then followed that directly with the phrase 'some new innovations')

/facepalm

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '
')permaculture is a puzzle piece, not the entire solution. .

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's nothing wrong with MIT except they keep trying to make a fridge that tells people when to buy milk.