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$780,000,000,000.00

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby Boo38 » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 07:31:59

I'm going to use any money I get from the stimulus package to stock up on pitchforks and torches!
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby Cynus » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:07:44

Does anyone know if the energy related and mass transit related items are still in the bill?
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby mattduke » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:20:10

The state doesn't care what they spend it on. My advice to you is to create about 50 companies for the sole purpose of capturing some of these dollars. You will not be the only one. It will help if you know someone in the city council.
Last edited by mattduke on Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:21:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:20:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'W')hat choices are there though?

I don't think we have much of a choice right now but to ride this Jumbo 747 in to the ground. The forward momentum is overwhelming and we don't have any qualified pilots. Hopefully we'll be able to emerge from the wreckage and start traveling on a mule instead.


Lets hope that we're not faced with the repeat fiasco of squandering our resources on Chinese mules.


WTF is your hang up with China? I thought they were a communist workers paradise?

If you haven't been keeping up with the economics of this mess........We do not have the money. We borrow the money fron the Chinese and middle eastern despots.

If you want to help America......you don't go deeper into debt and if you do borrow money you don't blow it on condoms, union thugs and greenie algore BS projects.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:23:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')Lets hope that we're not faced with the repeat fiasco of squandering our resources on Chinese mules.


There was a "buy American" provision in the stimulus bill, to require purchase of American-made materials for construction projects paid for by stimulus money, but Republicans (and Obama, apparently) didn't like the provision, so it was changed.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... ican_N.htm

I haven't looked up the current wording of the provision.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby NoWorries » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:28:14

This is the second such stimulus (TARP in October being the first) of $700 Billion or more. So, thus far we're up to approx. $1.4 Trillion (I've read the actual amount of the first stimulus was actually much higher than that, but let's take figures at face value).

Question: Will we see request for another such stimulus in another 4-6 months' time?

If so, how long can this continue, if this downturn is expected to last years (as Obama himself admits). Will big business keep going back to Congress to ask them to print more money?
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 11:52:55

.... a few thoughts.

Anyone know quickly this $780 billion will be spent? Is it in five years? Two years? One year? Or maybe really fast like in 6 months?

Apparently half the 700 billion TARP money approved four months ago has been spent thus far and some (hard to determine exactly how much) of that $350 billion spent is recoverable since some is in the form of stock.

So.... anyone stumble across an article explaining how much and how quickly we're headed into additional debt? It would be nice to have specific figures.

I mention this because if the rest of the TARP and this additional $780b will be blown fairly quickly... and afterwards we're still in a financial mess.... additional stimulus money will be approved. I'm trying to get an idea how soon (and how much) the next one will be.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 12:05:38

Peter Schiff video on the Ponzi economy.

Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster"

Deflation, Hyperinflation..........but either way Depression. But so far his investor's have taken it in the nuts.

Guess what? The house may want it to go higher to 827,000,000,000.00.

Hell, why stop there? Its all funny money now in the Land of HopeNchange.

Why not a cool Trillion?

Why not Two Trillion??

Why not Ten Trillion????

Not enough Trees?????????

We are all so very fu*ked!!!

Image
Last edited by AlexdeLarge on Sat 07 Feb 2009, 12:20:16, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 12:10:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'P')eter Schiff video on the Ponzi economy.

Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster"

Deflation, Hyperinflation..........but either way Depression. But so far his investor's have taken it in the nuts.



Yes, I understand and believe this will be true. I was trying to get some idea on a timeline ... an idea when and how deeply things will deteriorate as a result of this wild inflationary process.

It's tough to tell because many of the brightest minds in the nation are saying it's for the long-term good and other equally bright people are saying it'll cause unspeakable disaster.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby dinopello » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 12:44:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')he state doesn't care what they spend it on. My advice to you is to create about 50 companies for the sole purpose of capturing some of these dollars. You will not be the only one. It will help if you know someone in the city council.


If you live in a place where none of the local elected officials know you and you them, then I would move. That is a ridiculous situation to be in.

Spurring the economy.
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 14:01:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '.')... a few thoughts.

Anyone know quickly this $780 billion will be spent? Is it in five years? Two years? One year? Or maybe really fast like in 6 months?


You need to check the amendments, which changed some timelines. For some of the funds, such as for highway and construction projects, it looks like the money will be disbursed quickly, but I haven't studied all of the provisions.

House Bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c ... 111vLGv2P::

Senate amendments: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c ... 1116sxic6::

Press release about timelines: http://transportation.house.gov/News/PR ... NewsID=808
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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 16:57:33

Sixstrings said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's refreshing to hear a governmental agency speaking the truth. The more debt the government takes on, the more investors will rush into treasuries, and the less they'll invest in the private market.


Sorry if this deflates your optimism toward truthful reporting by the CBO, but what they are saying is mostly a lie of omission. It is just more smoke and mirrors which confuses, and extends the denial time of the clueless American public.

First: $780 billion will not be enough to prevent the meltdown from continuing. $780 billion will not even cover financial losses in the housing and commercial markets for ‘09. Compared to the $7.7 trillion loss in household net wealth, or the $20 trillion in equity and bond losses in ‘08, $780 billion will almost be nothing more than a nuisance installment! Its impact on future years will probably be so small as to be undetectable.

Second: crowding out private investment is synonymous with producing deflation in private asset classes. In an economy that can not be grown, printing “naked currency” does not stimulate economic activity, it merely transfers wealth from asset classes into consumables. Asset values decline in direct proportion.

Third: the stimulus plan has nothing to do with stimulating the economy. Consumption will not increase, asset values will not improve, nor will job numbers grow. The stimulus plan is not being put forward to save the economy, it is being initiated to extend the life span of the present monetary system. How the money is spent is “technically” irrelevant, as long as it is spent.

The fundamental monetary problem is that the credit markets have collapsed. There is now not enough new debt formation occurring to produce the money to service the debt that is already outstanding. Without a massive injection of “naked currency” to supply the liquidity to service that debt, ‘09 would be a year of tsunami sized defaults. $10s of trillions in needed debt maintenance would not occur; a true financial Armageddon would take place.

Of course, the real problem is that we are rapidly approaching the end of the fossil fuel age. Energy requirements for the general economy have basically been ignored by neoclassical economics (which is analogous to ignoring gravity in Bungee jumping). The energy needed to fuel our modern 21’st century economy is declining by 5% per year. The idea that energy value is best correlated with Available Energy (not necessarily Ps vs. Qs) is incomprehensible to the preprogrammed neoclassical economic mind. Admitting that thermodynamics is a better substantiated science, than the “dried bones” and “chicken blood” voodoo approach of economics, is of course unacceptable.

In defense of the CBO, pumping the needed $5 trillion into the economy in ‘09 would most likely cause complications in “the long run”. By using the proverbial economic “IF”, if there are future years for this economy. The chances of that occurring, appear to be getting negligibly smaller by the day!





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Re: $780,000,000,000.00

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 07 Feb 2009, 18:29:35

Harley gets help from Warren Buffett

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')n investment by the firm of Warren Buffett, the world's richest man, should help Harley-Davidson continue loaning money to its customers and dealers.

Those loans will enable thousands to buy Harley-Davidson motorcycles when they don't have the up-front cash or when funding might not otherwise be available.

The company has said its loan operation is one of its priorities to keep people buying motorcycles, but it said the division needed funds.

Harley said Tuesday it had issued $600 million in unsecured debt notes, which function as a loan to Harley-Davidson Financial Services from whoever buys the notes.


http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_11625177?source=most_viewed
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