The Pope is a joke. Now we get to hear all about the vast array of miracles the last Pope allegedly preformed so the Catholics can make him a Saint! Here is a partial list from the story ..…. An American Jew cured of a brain tumor after attending Mass with Pope John Paul II …… A Mexican boy stricken with leukemia who recovered after a papal kiss …… A cardinal who regained his ability to speak after John Paul touched his throat …… blah, blah, blah.
If this cat was capable of performing miracles he should have been doing nothing but until his dying breath instead of sitting on his ass year after year preaching intolerance & antiquated concepts.
PeakOil is You
THE Pope Thread (merged)
by Doly » Tue 12 Apr 2005, 10:00:28
My vote goes for Carlos Amigo!
He's got everything: he's European, with good relations with Latin America and good knowledge of Islam as well. He's popular and charismatic. He's even got the perfect surname!
He's got everything: he's European, with good relations with Latin America and good knowledge of Islam as well. He's popular and charismatic. He's even got the perfect surname!
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by lorenzo » Tue 12 Apr 2005, 12:32:31
Indeed, Amigo Vallejo stands a good chance; he's got the perfect age (70), speaks 5 languages, knows Latin America; is from a "latin" country himself, and he has extensive relations with Islamic leaders as he served in Morocco.
Maybe he's too liberal, even though his name is "amigo".
Maybe he's too liberal, even though his name is "amigo".
The Beginning is Near!
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by erl » Tue 12 Apr 2005, 19:27:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') give you the keys to the future of the Church, I incarnate myself in you.
That's not what this verse says.
Matthew 16:18-19
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19- I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.
Nowhere does this imply that Peter or any "church" is the incarnation of Jesus. In fact, there is great debate as to whether Peter which means "little rock" or "stone" is the "rock" of the following verse. Sorry, just being coldly intellectual.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hristianity is per definition a religion of materiality and of the senses, embodied in a community
I agree with the community aspect, but "materiality?" From everything I've read in the Bible (without the aid of the Pope), I can hardly come to the conclusion that materiality is an aspect of Christianity. Jesus the original "material guy?" Or, maybe I'm just missing your point here. Please explain.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ituals are not some show, or some decoration, they are the crux of Christianity.
Okay, we are in direct disagreement here. And perhaps this is the difference between Christianity and Catholicism, which was my original question. Ritual, has nothing to do with salvation. End of story. Ritual does nothing. Ritual is us trying to redeem ourselves. Sorry, Jesus himself said it can't be done.
Even "rituals" practised within the Protestant church (baptism, communion) do absolutely nothing for salvation. Any effect they would have would demean the sacrifice of Christ. If you want to defend rituals (Protestant or Catholic) you will have to point out where Jesus said they are required and not an after comment or add-on.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he protestant notion that all you need is a Bible which you can interpret by yourself as an individual (sola scriptura) is literally nonsensical. The doctrine would imply that you as a human being, are equal to God (because you are suggesting you can interpret the Bible all by yourself, correctly - this total access to the Divine knowledge implies you are God yourself -- that is unthinkable and obscene).
Do Catholics not read the Bible? The leap in logic here is questionable. The Catholic church produced its early Bibles only in Latin. Hence only Priests could read it. After Tyndale began producing the Bible in English, he was put to death by the Catholic church. But, since so many copies were out there, the Catholic church finally relented and produced its own versions in English, German, etc.
The notion that I (or anyone) needs a Pope or Priest looking over our shoulders to make sure that we "interpret" the Bible correctly is nonsensical and totally contradictory to scripture. Jesus appearance totally overturned the traditional notions of our relationship with God. No further intermediary was or is required. I don't know about you, but my prayers are directed toward God, the Father, or to Jesus.
Reading and interpreting the Bible by myself is not equating myself with God. But, it is equating myself with any Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, or even (gasp) the Pope. I may ask advice and counsel from those more learned than I am, but I am free to accept or reject.
BTW, when you say, $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'b')ecause you are suggesting you can interpret the Bible all by yourself, correctly - this total access to the Divine knowledge implies you are God yourself -- that is unthinkable and obscene).
...are you implying that the Pope is the equivalent of God when he reads and interprets the Bible? Or any Priest, Bishop, or Cardinal for that matter? And that isn't unthinkable and obscene?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')esus incarnated himself into his followers and urged them to form a community.
No. Jesus said I am leaving you now, but I am sending you a comfortor to remain with you (the Holy Spirit).
John 16:5: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')evertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jesus and the Holy Sprit are not both present on the earth. So, unless you can show me where the Holy Sprit has departed...or is the Pope now the incarnation of the Holy Spirit as well?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he difference between Protestantism and Catholicism is merely a matter of weather, climate, temperature and temperament.
