[Leanan]

A science story hit the news today, about the Donner Party. A Discovery Channel team found a hearth using sonar. They also found artifacts, including what they believe to be human bone from cannibal meals.

Anyway, it reminded me of a study done a few years ago. The Donner Party and several other catastrophes, historical and modern, were examined to see if there were any factors that predicted who would live and who would die.

Turns out, your chances of surviving a catastrophe, whether fire, flood, or famine, are best if you are a young woman. Children die quickly. They don't have the physical strength to save themselves in floods and tsunamis, and their growing bodies are vulnerable to starvation. Similarly, older people die faster than those in their prime. People aged 20-39 have the best chance of survival.

Men are more likely than women to die of violence, especially when times are tough. Several of the Donner party males died in fights and such. Women also have more reserves than men. They are overdesigned for pregnancy and carry more fat. When the food ran out, the men started dying two months before the women did.

Lastly, selfishness may save your life. There was one family among the Donner party that didn't lose any members. They were remarkable for their extreme selfishness. Even before the party got into trouble, this family would not share a thing. Not a drop of water, not a single bean. It paid off for them.

[Aaron]

Donner... Party of 5... your table is ready... Donner... Party of 5 your...

Donner Party of 4... your table is ready... Donner, Party of 4...

[Pops]

If that's the case, I know some people who'll be around for the duration!


I read the book on the Donner several times.

This was the best line:
never take no cutoffs and hurry along as fast as you can. -- Virginia Reed

[Barbara]

Selfishness... sad but true.
When I read "Maus" of Art Speigelman I've learned those people in nazi lagers could survive only if very selfish. People helping and sharing didn't last long.

[k_semler]

That book is strange. It reminds me of a comic book. I had to read that for my freshmen class back in college. I thought that the book Isabella: From Auschwitz to Freedom was very well written, and gives an accurate portrayal of her experience in the Auschwitz prisoner camp. As a matter of fact, I purchased this book once I got out of college, so I could read it again at a later date. Here is a sample of what is contained within this book.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Isabella: From Auschwitz to Freedom, pp 44-46', '
') The Baby

MOST OF US are born to live--to die, but to live first. You, dear darling, you are being born only to die. How good of you to come before roll call though, so your mother does not have to stand at attention while you are being born. Dropping out of the womb onto the ground with your mother's thighs shielding you like the wings of angels is an infinitely nicer way to die than being fed into the gas chamber. But we are not having Zählappell, so we can stand around and listen to your mother's muffled cries.

And now that you are born, your mother begs to see you, to hold you. But we know that if we give you to here, there will be a struggle to take you away again, to we cannot let her see you because you don't belong to her. You belong to the gas chamber. Your mother has no rights. She only brought forth fodder for the gas chamber. She is not a mother. She is just a dirty Jew who has soiled the Aryan landscape with another dirty Jew. How dare she think of you in human terms?

And so, dear baby, you are on your way to heaven to meed a recent arrival who is blowing a loving kiss to you through the smoke, a dear friend, you maker--your father.

Casting in Auschwitz

IT IS A BEAUTIFUL sunny Sunday. Summertime in Auschwitz. The crematoriums are taking a well-deserved rest. An easing of tension is hovering in the air. The sun must be healing our souls, burning out the pain from deep inside. There is something just a little bit different. The are leaving us alone for a bit. The constant regimenting seems somewhat eased. What is it? Why? For whatever reason, it feels so good.

The little readheaded Kapo is busily scurrying about, asking all kinds of questions--who can sing what, play what instrument, recite what poem--the instant casting director. There will be a concert this afternoon in the Lagerstrasse for all to enjoy-- the most unlikely cultural event on the face of the earth.

Regina, known for her magnificent dramatic power in reciting poetry, is chosen. She can fuse heaven and hell when she recites the words "At the sight of this, even the mute will speak." And there is a cello, a violin, a flute. The musicians play sitting on chairs. (chairs? We haven't seen one since we left home.) Thousands of people are sitting on the ground, in the sun, incredulously soaking in the sounds.

What does this all mean? Will there be a change? Have the Germans suddenly realized that we too have souls to be fed? Will they also feed our bodies? What does this all mean? Is this true? Or are we insane? Have they really succeeded and are we just seeing imaginary things, hearing imaginary sounds in our tortured heads, sounds we vaguely remember to have loved? Pleas, somebody, tell us what is happening.

And somebody--or, rather, something--does. Airplanes are flying over our heads. The Germans are taking pictures of the humane treatment we are receiving in the legendary Auschwitz. The world will soon have proof of Germany's humanity to Jews.

[KiddieKorral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'T')urns out, your chances of surviving a catastrophe, whether fire, flood, or famine, are best if you are a young woman.

[superhamzah]

Young woman...they're the enemy!!!!!!!!!

Thx for letting us know....well....now we know what to do

But then i cant get married oh well, never mind...

Ok, on a serious note...men, IF they are reasonable, would survive longer, reason being is that muscle mass, reduces slower than fat mass. So, if you're muscular, it takes a lot longer to get ill than fat folk.

Plus men can hunt better, since they are physically stronger, so if its individual survival, women aint got a chance! Unless they're amazon ones or something.

However women are a lot better at intricate, complicated stuff, preparation, preservation, nurturing etc

So really, a harmonious combination of both sexes doing what they excel at the most, results in more prosperity overall.

[k_semler]

What we clearly need to do is breed man with woman. The offspring would have both strength and endurance. :s

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')k, on a serious note...men, IF they are reasonable, would survive longer, reason being is that muscle mass, reduces slower than fat mass. So, if you're muscular, it takes a lot longer to get ill than fat folk.

[superhamzah]

The muscles go before the fat does..building muscle doesnt get rid of fat it just encompasses it. A diet reduces fat.

If your muscular you have the ability to use more energy. If your fat, you become lazy and the fat is simply a load u have to carry. Everyone needs fat.

If you told an alien every human needs water, and we're made of mostly water, they would stick us all in the ocean. But'we'd drown

[KiddieKorral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('superhamzah', 'I')f you told an alien every human needs water, and we're made of mostly water, they would stick us all in the ocean. But'we'd drown

[Leanan]

Me, too. I think there must be something of a language barrier or something.

Nevertheless, there's no doubt about this. There's been a lot of research into it, and fat helps you survive. That's why we have it. And women do outlast men during times of famine. It's been proved, sadly, time and again in human history. Women naturally have more fat reserves than men. A healthy woman carries enough fat to support a baby through a nine-month pregnancy. If she's not pregnant, she can live off that store herself.

But see, this is a reason why I'm against eugenics. I'm sure if American parents had a choice, no one would want a fat child. We'd be a nation of tall, skinny supermodel/athlete types. Which is great, as long as there's a McDonald's on every corner. In times of scarcity, though, it would be awful.

Some ethnic groups are much more prone to obesity than others. Pima Indians, for example. They tend to be very heavy, and something like 50% of them have diabetes. Are they just genetically inferior? No. The Pima tribe likely suffered frequent famines in the past, and the ones who survived were the ones whose bodies tend to hoard fat. It may be a liability now, but if times change, that liability will become a huge asset.

[KiddieKorral]

Well then, I'm screwed. I'm 5'7'', 105 lbs. I'd have a tough time supporting a baby in times like these, much less myself in a SHTF scenario. Maby I should be buying bulk grain?

[KiddieKorral]

Anyone have some tips on how to put on a little weight without needing coronary bypass surgery? My problem is, I have the metabolism of a hummingbird on crystal meth.

[Aaron]

5'7' @ 105 pounds ehh?

I know how you can instantly put on 180 lbs...

But seriously...

The trick is to hook up with a successful hunter. Most folks these days don't have experience in producing their own food, even many of today's "hunters" are really lease hunters who could never hunt with success in a natural forrest.


What may seem like an impossible task to most folks today, is no big thing really. I was raised in the hunting & fishing tradition... every male in my family can hunt & fish. After 25 years experience in hunting & fishing I'm pretty confident in bringing home the bacon. I have absolute confidence I can bag enough food in a week for more than 10 adults to live large... every week. Anyone can do the same... it's not as difficult as it might seem. The trick is getting good at it before you are starving.

Heck, a well placed trot-line is a major source of nourishment. For those who don't know what a trot-line is... enjoy your McSolyent Green.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he trick is to hook up with a successful hunter. Most folks these days don't have experience in producing their own food, even many of today's "hunters" are really lease hunters who could never hunt with success in a natural forrest.