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If you were president of the US...

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby dinopello » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 15:26:17

The thing is, the President can't really pass this or that law or remove existing ones. You can veto proposed new ones and move the armed forced around. You can argue for whatever you want but you have to convince a lot of people.

The quickest impact you could have is veto everything and tell the armed forces where to go and what to do. It would be interesting. Congress would have to come up with stuff that a veto majority could agree on. It might work.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 15:26:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')hen there's Congress to deal with, the holder of the pursestrings.


Yeah, they used to be the holders of the arrow quiver, too, but they signed off on that one pretty fast a couple of terms ago, so why not abdicated it all?
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 15:28:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', 'A') few things I would do are:

1) pass a flat 15% tax regardless of income.


Bzzzt. No way. There are basic human subsistence needs regardless of how rich or poor you are. Everything else is gravy, and the more gravy you gots, the more you can affords t' lose. Tax the rich proportionately. The day the government passes a flat tax is the day the poor get the moral right to eat the rich.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 15:51:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '3')) Pass a 20% tax on all imports


Beggar thy neighbour policies like that made the Depression deeper and harder than it had to be; that's why we got away from that kind of thing. Besides, the US has a number of trade deals with other countries that mean it can't simply slap a blanket tax on imports.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '5')) I would pass a 10% under balance budget law requiring 10% of all federal income to go to an emergency fund for national crisis.


It's a nice idea, but where does the money come from for this? If you're talking about a balanced budget, then you're talking about a huge increase in income tax. Let's not forget: even if you balance the budget, a big, big part of the "budget" is paying off the national debt in the meantime.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '6')) I would create a open bid environment for all government equipment and supplies...(NO MORE $1000.00 hammers)


That's probably long overdue, yeah.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '7')) I would outlaw lobbyist and any contributions to any political member or party from any source other than private and limited to no more than $10,000.00


They'd probably find ways around it, but it's a nice idea to implement.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '8') I would let the free market work and let any business that cant survive fail as it should be. Who ever survives will be the stronger and wiser for it.


Or the most thoroughgoingly corrupt, yes...


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '9')) I would give a 90 day open gate policy for all illegals currently in the country to register, after which I would order the military to catch and then deport any and all who failed to do so.

10) I would order the military to keep our boarders safe from illegal crossing by any means necessary.

11) I would withdraw all troops in foreign lands immediately and redirect them to internal security such as boarder patrol


Francisco Franco lives again!


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '1')2) I would order all foreign trade to be re-evaluated and those that are not advantageous to America to be halted immediately. FAIR OR NO TRADE would be the new U.S. policy

If it's acceptable if it's advantageous to the US, then it's not "fair", is it? Fair means if someone else has an advantage in one aspect, you accept it, and work on ameliorating it and concentrating as well on the advantages YOU have over THEM. Which is the system we're all supposed to have right now.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '1')4) I would mandate any cars sold in this country by 2010 to be 50% more efficient than 2007 standards.

50%? I think you'd SERIOUSLY want to look into the technology; what's available and what's affordable. It's not going to help anyone if Detroit makes a car 50% more efficient that costs $125,000 to put on the road.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '1')5) I would also order domestic car manufacturers to come up with conversion kits to change any current vehicle to electric and possibly have a grant match funding for such conversion

Are these the same manufacturers that are borrowing billions from North American governments right now just to keep the lights on? Those "orders" of yours better come backed with the dough to make them possible, then... or you're simply ordering back the tide, President Canute.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '1')7) I would stop any foreign investment from hostel nations in anything in or to do with this country.

Who defines "hostile" (I'm assuming you mean "hostile", BTW, not homes for wanderlusting youth in Germany)? What are the criteria? Is Cuba "hostile", or do you actually have to be lobbing shells into Long Island?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', '2')0) I would get rid of any and all BIG BROTHER LAWS

What, you mean like ones that have the army sealing the border, tossing homes without warrants looking for wetbacks, shut down the trucking industry by demanding transit by rail, shackles the auto industry with unachievable demands with unrealistic timelines, limit a citizen's right to make campaign contributions as per the dictates of his conscience and his wallet... things like that, you mean? Take a big hard stare at the hypocrisy mirror, dude. :lol:
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby StormBringer » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 16:22:40

First of all there is nothing hypocritical about enforcing immigration laws that are already on the books but are not being enforced.

Second as far as the trucking industry it takes trucks to go from the train to the store now don't it SO putting them out of business NO, asking them to change YES.

As far as trade there are things such as mutually advantageous...I'm just tired of the shit end of the stick.

And if you cant see that the status quo which you are defending so much doesn't work I feel sorry for you. Defend your house of cards all you want. You want things fixed yet you don't want things to change DONT WANT TO GIVE UP A FEW GOODIES WELL BOO HOO and YOU CALL ME A HYPOCRITE PLEASE...........

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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby phaster » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 16:48:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daphne64', 'W')hat would you do?

After balling up and crying, of course.



are you kidding if I were president, I'd see it as an opportunity to put the following plan into action...

1) turn in my resignation

2) sign a book/movie deal

3) buy a large track of remote land in the name of protecting the environment

4) collect beautiful women from around the world to keep me company on aforementioned large track of remote land.

once all that stuff is done try somehow after all that to live happily ever after
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 16:59:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'I') think Heinlein said it best in several of his books. The problem with Democracy is that eventually the people realize they can vote themselves bread and circuses. After they start doing so, things go downhill rapidly (see California for a prime example). Also to note he mentioned that its upside is that it is the best form of government yet invented, which doesn't really mean it is all that good, just the best of a bad lot.


Yeah, the upshot was that Heinlein's only posited solutions in his stories were A) the strong and smart take charge and make the trains run on time -- an idea you'd think would have been thoroughly discredited by the time he was writing -- and B) smart people should go off on their own, eke out a living, and behave with the utmost misanthropy that doesn't actually result in everyone else ganging up to destroy you in mutual self-interest.

I don't think democracy has to necessarily degenerate in the way you cite at all. What's needed is education. People have to be made aware of how society works, how an economy works (how you can't spend more than you tax, for instance; if you want X, you have to pay Y, or maybe do without Z), the real ramifications of war at home and abroad... and frankly, I think the West has made real progress in that since the Second World War. It's not perfect, and people still vote on lines of self-interest, but it's not what it was in the 1800s by any means.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby RdSnt » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 18:15:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'H')ow's that for starters 8)


Pretty impressive. You thinking of running for PM...?


Nope, I'm part of the great unwashed, wouldn't stand a chance.

Here's another big one that is essentail.

I'd implement a minimum income, say $15,000/year, to everyone over voting age.
Then I'd cancel all other support systems, welfare, UI, etc...
Why?

It's much simpler and would eliminate vast hordes of bureaucrats and complex (expensive to maintain) and overlapping accounting systems.
Businesses could get rid of all the crap they have to keep track of to satisfy the various employment support systems.
There would be no additional government run retirement structures. The basic income would last till the grave.

Businesses would pay less to their employees, those that chose to work ( and there would be plenty).

Part of the reasoning for this is to cope with the need to reduce the workforce. The US overconsumes, and that is rapidly coming to an end. Yet, what do we do with all the workers?

How to pay for this? Tax at the level needed to support it and there would be graduated tax system. Historically the US has done far better when taxes were high. The very best times of productivity and dominance, the top tax rate was 90%.
Each time low taxes has been tried the country attempting it has failed miserably. And you only have to look at the US in its current state to see the proof of that.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Byron100 » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 18:52:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '
')I'd implement a minimum income, say $15,000/year, to everyone over voting age.
Then I'd cancel all other support systems, welfare, UI, etc...
Why?

It's much simpler and would eliminate vast hordes of bureaucrats and complex (expensive to maintain) and overlapping accounting systems.
Businesses could get rid of all the crap they have to keep track of to satisfy the various employment support systems.
There would be no additional government run retirement structures. The basic income would last till the grave.

Businesses would pay less to their employees, those that chose to work ( and there would be plenty).

Part of the reasoning for this is to cope with the need to reduce the workforce. The US overconsumes, and that is rapidly coming to an end. Yet, what do we do with all the workers?

How to pay for this? Tax at the level needed to support it and there would be graduated tax system. Historically the US has done far better when taxes were high. The very best times of productivity and dominance, the top tax rate was 90%.
Each time low taxes has been tried the country attempting it has failed miserably. And you only have to look at the US in its current state to see the proof of that.


Bravo! This I would do, exactly.

It's the only possible way to solve the intractable problem of too many people versus too few jobs. Pay everyone something, and let the people who thrive on work do their thing, without "guilt" of taking work away from someone who needs it just to live.

RdSnt for Prez! :-D
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Pops » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 19:33:39

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Pops » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 19:39:18

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Steps to take
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I’d guess my thoughts are more structural; actually they may be more along the lines of knocking out some of the existing structure:

Institute a gradual increase to maybe a $20/gal petroleum tax and the equivalent on all other energy sources.

Institute a flat federal income tax with NO subsidies/credits/allowances/distinction between income sources except for charitable giving and impose it on all imports/transactions as well, no matter the base of the importer. Eliminate all sales/state/local/special district taxes. Distribute a portion of federal income taxes to states and localities uniformly by population. Any tax money to only be spent in return for meaningful work.

Strictly, and I mean strictly, no, really; strictly regulate whatever financial institutions may be left.

Eliminate all overseas military bases. Institute a mandatory 2 year military or civilian service requirement at 18 years of age paying room and board. Arm and train every male age 18-35.

Make concealed carry mandatory for all able bodied adults. Eliminate all drug laws, make any drug involved crime and any existing fixed-sentence punishment over ten years a death penalty offence – lesser crimes are punishable by old fashioned hard labor.

Make voting mandatory. Make professional lobbying illegal and punishable by death, cap political contributions at $100, re-define political districts to existing municipal or county boundaries and allow no further changes.


Then go to my undisclosed location and watch things unfold on CNN - wait a minute, I would also make owning more than one media outlet illegal too.

It might not have helped but it would sure be interesting to watch…
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby RdSnt » Fri 30 Jan 2009, 23:38:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '
')I'd implement a minimum income, say $15,000/year, to everyone over voting age.
Then I'd cancel all other support systems, welfare, UI, etc...
Why?

It's much simpler and would eliminate vast hordes of bureaucrats and complex (expensive to maintain) and overlapping accounting systems.
Businesses could get rid of all the crap they have to keep track of to satisfy the various employment support systems.
There would be no additional government run retirement structures. The basic income would last till the grave.

Businesses would pay less to their employees, those that chose to work ( and there would be plenty).

Part of the reasoning for this is to cope with the need to reduce the workforce. The US overconsumes, and that is rapidly coming to an end. Yet, what do we do with all the workers?

How to pay for this? Tax at the level needed to support it and there would be graduated tax system. Historically the US has done far better when taxes were high. The very best times of productivity and dominance, the top tax rate was 90%.
Each time low taxes has been tried the country attempting it has failed miserably. And you only have to look at the US in its current state to see the proof of that.


Bravo! This I would do, exactly.

It's the only possible way to solve the intractable problem of too many people versus too few jobs. Pay everyone something, and let the people who thrive on work do their thing, without "guilt" of taking work away from someone who needs it just to live.

RdSnt for Prez! :-D


Change your Constitution and I'll run.

Here's another measure.

I would ban all handguns, no one would be able to own them or carry them. 1 in 10,000 might be called nominally competent at using them (if I was charitable). This would include police forces.
I would arm them with rifles and lightweight auto/semi auto machineguns, requiring two hands to control.
Anyone publicly displaying or carrying a hand gun would be immediately shot. No hesitation, no negotiation.

I would end the American fetish with penis replacements and require the public to grow a backbone.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 08:53:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'C')hange your Constitution and I'll run. I would ban all handguns


:lol: I was just going to say, "every time I look at their 2nd Amendment, I want to run!" :lol:
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Nickel » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 08:59:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'r')e-define political districts to existing municipal or county boundaries and allow no further changes.


Under this system, any natural shift in population would eventually re-institute the rotten borough system Britain shook off in the early 19th century.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby RdSnt » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 10:34:50

Actually on that last point Pops, something that I would seriously look at implementing is defining boundaries based on watersheds.

It would be something that I would initiate later in my mandate.

In spite of all the discussion of energy, water is the basis of all life and it is also the underlying element of organization and determiner of responsibility.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby evilgenius » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 15:37:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', 'A') few things I would do are:

1) pass a flat 15% tax regardless of income.


Bzzzt. No way. There are basic human subsistence needs regardless of how rich or poor you are. Everything else is gravy, and the more gravy you gots, the more you can affords t' lose. Tax the rich proportionately. The day the government passes a flat tax is the day the poor get the moral right to eat the rich.


I agree. What I would do rather than install a flat tax would be to ease the upper bracket to 25% tops (lower bracket would be somewhere near 15%). In conjunction with this I would put in a 1% (no more than that) national sales tax. This way the rich would still pay a larger proportion as payment to society for giving them a construct within which to become so rich and the actual consumers of the goods that the rich get rich off of would pay to take part as well.

As an aside, if sales went down because the sales tax was too high I wonder if the rich would make the connection?
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Pops » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 18:16:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'A')ctually on that last point Pops, something that I would seriously look at implementing is defining boundaries based on watersheds.

Currently districts are gerrymandered based on the likely voterhood the party in power would like to see when re-diistricting takes place - leading to basically one party rule in those districts.

Some other boundary selection method seems better than a representative selecting the voters likely to vote for him.

There are watersheds which would be great - but anything other than the current process would be better.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 19:25:22

Nickel wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah, they used to be the holders of the arrow quiver, too, but they signed off on that one pretty fast a couple of terms ago, so why not abdicated it all?

That indeed seems to be where we're headed. Welcome to Empire, my Fellow Romans.

The way things stand, America just sort of has to have a sizable war every 30-40 years, with smaller conflicts in between. It's almost as if the military complex demands it, like there's some need that must satisfied at regular intervals.

It really is a mess, when you think about it. Here we had a Democratic Congress, elected for their anti-war campaigning, and yet they did squat to stop the war. All because they were TOO AFRAID of being blamed if they stopped the war and things got worse in the middle east.

Isn't that the most shallow argument of all? To say, I'm against war but let's keep warring anyway cuz I don't wanna be left holding the bag.

It occurs to me this is why we're likely to never have a draft ever again. TPTB will do everything they have to, to avoid the draft -- they'll pay mercenaries $200,000 a year, whatever it takes. Because you see, it's only when there's a draft that the American people really rise up in opposition to a war.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby sicophiliac » Mon 02 Feb 2009, 20:15:37

Id change the tax code so that you are penalized severely for having more than two children. Also if somebody keeps popping out babies and continues to drain the system via food stamps, welfare etc they should be sterilized. For those who have two or fewer children things will stay the same tax wise.

Bring back eugenics with mandatory genetic screenings of all citizens, immigrants and newborn children. Those who choose to have children despite their genetic inferiority shall be punished financially through fines etc. Failure to comply would result in mandatory sterilization.

Legalize euthanasia and encourage it for the incurably disabled,elderly, drug addicted, homeless etc.

Increase funding for genetic engineering to more quickly bring about the next stage in human evolution: people who are smarter, stronger,faster and more free of disease.
Increase funding for regenerative medicine so that people can live longer and be more productive happy citizens.

Increase funding for AI and nanotechnology research.

Clone mammoths and sabertooth tigers just because.
I will add more posts when I think of more ideas.
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Re: If you were president of the US...

Postby Javaman » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 06:52:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', 'A') few things I would do are:

1) pass a flat 15% tax regardless of income.


Bzzzt. No way. There are basic human subsistence needs regardless of how rich or poor you are. Everything else is gravy, and the more gravy you gots, the more you can affords t' lose. Tax the rich proportionately. The day the government passes a flat tax is the day the poor get the moral right to eat the rich.


Most of the "rich" people live rather mundane lives, spending many hours per day/week working, running businesses, earning money and managing investments. Their wealth serves mainly to provide jobs for people who work fewer hours than they do, yet who still get enough to eat and have a place to stay. The more you "spread the wealth," the less wealth there will be. The FairTax would be much better than any type of income tax, flat or not.
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